7 ms·

I don't think I broke any rules, and my comments are on topic. Anyway, why do you fight so hard? You would get cured too.

dang 3y ago
Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN. We don't want flamewars either, which is what you've been creating and fueling in this thread. I think it's weirdly interesting that you're advocating for lead as nutrient, but accounts that post this kind of thing usually overdo it, since they have a pre-existing agenda and are not using the site for curiosity. We may need lead, but we don't need that, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Weneedlead 3y ago
  I really mean it, though. It does seem to be the other way round than what's claimed, and I really don't know what to do with it.
  - dang 3y ago
    I know you really mean it! but that doesn't change any of the above. In fact it makes it more important, since it's harder to stop posting like this when you really mean it. It's difficult and frustrating to represent a minority view on the internet, especially one as rare as yours, which the vast majority of the audience are simply not going to understand or accept. What we often see is that contrarian/minority commenters compensate for this frustration by digging in and becoming sort of fixated on the point, intensifying their advocacy for the truth as they see it. This can get you sucked into a loop where you keep turning up the volume and frequency of your posts in order to try to get a hearing, or to lash out at the majority, who often respond unfairly,—but all this only intensifies the resistance and outrage the majority comes back with. The way this dynamic ends is that we have to ban the account that's provoking the continued conflict—even if they're the one who is right (which sometimes, of course, a contrarian is). That sucks, but the only alternative would be flamewars everywhere, and that would suck worse. The only thing I know that can help with this is accepting in one's heart that humans are nearly entirely wrong about nearly everything, and making peace with it. For this it can help to realize that it's probably as true of oneself as it is of anyone else. Also, people don't choose their views—for the most part we're conditioned by our backgrounds. Those don't move much, so it's hard for anyone to change their views, and it's certainly not going to happen in response to an internet commenter who appears fixated on a topic. So it's not in your own interest to post like this, because it will actually entrench the others in their opposing view. If you allow yourself to keep upping the ante, you end up discrediting whatever truth you're trying to advocate. The only way to avoid this to deflate 90% if not 99% of the pressure you're putting on the topic—which I know is not easy, when you probably have many reasons to feel strongly about it. Here are some past explanations I've made to other users in similar situations, in case any of it is helpful: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20minority%20contrarian%20view&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
    - versteegen 3y ago
      Thanks for writing this, Daniel. Your cool-headedness and willingness to spend time defusing an conflict is an inspiring example. Favourited this wise comment. Thanks also Weneedlead for actually trying to argue your case in a relatively civil way after I and others attacked it, and I'm sorry if I raised the temperature. I think those of your arguments which I actually read are highly unconvincing (because toxins usually are functional analogues -- e.g. of calcium in the case of lead), but I freely admit that I'm biased against giving them a fair hearing, because a priori I predict an extremely low chance of it providing me any benefit for my time spent. Doesn't mean I'm absolutely 100% certain you're wrong. FWIW I flagged a comment because of the potential harm in spreading misinformation, not because it was uncivil, however in hindsight maybe in a forum like this where people have proper debates it's better to discuss than to moderate misinformation.
    - Weneedlead 3y ago
      >The only thing I know that can help with this is accepting in one's heart that humans are nearly entirely wrong about nearly everything, and making peace with it. I can't. Being wrong means that people exterminate themselves. It isn't something meaningless that doesn't matter. >Also, people don't choose their views—for the most part we're conditioned by our backgrounds. Ironically, this appears to be another symptom, just like the intensification of their existing beliefs by contrary evidence. Which also makes them intensify their belief in ever increasing progress even as the majority turns into savages.

dang 3y ago

Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN. We don't want flamewars either, which is what you've been creating and fueling in this thread. I think it's weirdly interesting that you're advocating for lead as nutrient, but accounts that post this kind of thing usually overdo it, since they have a pre-existing agenda and are not using the site for curiosity. We may need lead, but we don't need that, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Weneedlead 3y ago
I really mean it, though. It does seem to be the other way round than what's claimed, and I really don't know what to do with it.
- dang 3y ago
  I know you really mean it! but that doesn't change any of the above. In fact it makes it more important, since it's harder to stop posting like this when you really mean it. It's difficult and frustrating to represent a minority view on the internet, especially one as rare as yours, which the vast majority of the audience are simply not going to understand or accept. What we often see is that contrarian/minority commenters compensate for this frustration by digging in and becoming sort of fixated on the point, intensifying their advocacy for the truth as they see it. This can get you sucked into a loop where you keep turning up the volume and frequency of your posts in order to try to get a hearing, or to lash out at the majority, who often respond unfairly,—but all this only intensifies the resistance and outrage the majority comes back with. The way this dynamic ends is that we have to ban the account that's provoking the continued conflict—even if they're the one who is right (which sometimes, of course, a contrarian is). That sucks, but the only alternative would be flamewars everywhere, and that would suck worse. The only thing I know that can help with this is accepting in one's heart that humans are nearly entirely wrong about nearly everything, and making peace with it. For this it can help to realize that it's probably as true of oneself as it is of anyone else. Also, people don't choose their views—for the most part we're conditioned by our backgrounds. Those don't move much, so it's hard for anyone to change their views, and it's certainly not going to happen in response to an internet commenter who appears fixated on a topic. So it's not in your own interest to post like this, because it will actually entrench the others in their opposing view. If you allow yourself to keep upping the ante, you end up discrediting whatever truth you're trying to advocate. The only way to avoid this to deflate 90% if not 99% of the pressure you're putting on the topic—which I know is not easy, when you probably have many reasons to feel strongly about it. Here are some past explanations I've made to other users in similar situations, in case any of it is helpful: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20minority%20contrarian%20view&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
  - versteegen 3y ago
    Thanks for writing this, Daniel. Your cool-headedness and willingness to spend time defusing an conflict is an inspiring example. Favourited this wise comment. Thanks also Weneedlead for actually trying to argue your case in a relatively civil way after I and others attacked it, and I'm sorry if I raised the temperature. I think those of your arguments which I actually read are highly unconvincing (because toxins usually are functional analogues -- e.g. of calcium in the case of lead), but I freely admit that I'm biased against giving them a fair hearing, because a priori I predict an extremely low chance of it providing me any benefit for my time spent. Doesn't mean I'm absolutely 100% certain you're wrong. FWIW I flagged a comment because of the potential harm in spreading misinformation, not because it was uncivil, however in hindsight maybe in a forum like this where people have proper debates it's better to discuss than to moderate misinformation.
  - Weneedlead 3y ago
    >The only thing I know that can help with this is accepting in one's heart that humans are nearly entirely wrong about nearly everything, and making peace with it. I can't. Being wrong means that people exterminate themselves. It isn't something meaningless that doesn't matter. >Also, people don't choose their views—for the most part we're conditioned by our backgrounds. Ironically, this appears to be another symptom, just like the intensification of their existing beliefs by contrary evidence. Which also makes them intensify their belief in ever increasing progress even as the majority turns into savages.