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I really think people don’t even know why unionizing was a thing back in the day. Dangerous conditions, back breaking labor, endless hours, checks don’t clear,

I really think people don’t even know why unionizing was a thing back in the day. Dangerous conditions, back breaking labor, endless hours, checks don’t clear, wage collusion…

snozolli 4y ago
I don't know where you've worked, but I've sustained several debilitating repetitive stress injuries as a result of long hours working in tech. I've had multiple higher-ups bitch that we're supposed to be working ten or twelve hour days, then want us to come in on Saturdays, too. Apple and Google colluded to suppress wages: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-google-settle-antitrust-lawsuit-hiring-collusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-goo... So, the industry seems to tick all of your boxes.
- scarface74 4y ago
  And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? I can’t imagine it being hard to change jobs as even journeyman “enterprise developer” (which I did for 25 years until 2020). I was able to find a job quickly in 2000 and 2008. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion. That was illegal with or without unions.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    The point isn't to change jobs to improve your own conditions selfishly. The point is to change the industry to better conditions for everyone.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The average tenure of software developers in the US is less than 3 years. We are all changing jobs to make things better.
  - snozolli 4y ago
    And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion I didn't say anything about unions, I merely addressed the implication by the parent comment that it isn't an issue in the tech industry. That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      > Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. You realize there are jobs outside of the “Bay Area” don’t you? Do you know how many job “opportunities” I’ve “noped” out of in my career just based on asking the right questions about the “culture”? > Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? I am very much arguing that - based on 25 years of experience and 8 jobs. I have not written a single line of code that I haven’t gotten paid for since graduating from college - in 1996. > Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies If that’s not your preferred environment then don’t work for BigTech, there are literally millions of jobs at banks, government, insurance companies and other corporate America jobs where people work 40 hours a week. > That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught. And it was…
      - snozolli 4y ago
        And it was… The lawsuit was brought in 2011, covering a period beginning in 2005. I guess you think that's optimal. Regardless, your assertion that a union couldn't help with this is entirely unsupported. As for the rest, you can dismiss others all you want, but you know for a fact that what I've written about Bay Area and SV tech is true, and you also know that this site revolves around it. Good for you for whatever you've done, but it's irrelevant to the discussion.

I really think people don’t even know why unionizing was a thing back in the day. Dangerous conditions, back breaking labor, endless hours, checks don’t clear, wage collusion…

snozolli 4y ago

I don't know where you've worked, but I've sustained several debilitating repetitive stress injuries as a result of long hours working in tech. I've had multiple higher-ups bitch that we're supposed to be working ten or twelve hour days, then want us to come in on Saturdays, too. Apple and Google colluded to suppress wages: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-google-settle-antitrust-lawsuit-hiring-collusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-goo... So, the industry seems to tick all of your boxes.

scarface74 4y ago
And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? I can’t imagine it being hard to change jobs as even journeyman “enterprise developer” (which I did for 25 years until 2020). I was able to find a job quickly in 2000 and 2008. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion. That was illegal with or without unions.
- malermeister 4y ago
  The point isn't to change jobs to improve your own conditions selfishly. The point is to change the industry to better conditions for everyone.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The average tenure of software developers in the US is less than 3 years. We are all changing jobs to make things better.
- snozolli 4y ago
  And you weren’t capable of changing jobs? Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies. And unions wouldn’t have prevented collusion I didn't say anything about unions, I merely addressed the implication by the parent comment that it isn't an issue in the tech industry. That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > Yeah, I changed jobs to another job with similar bullshit Bay Area culture. You realize there are jobs outside of the “Bay Area” don’t you? Do you know how many job “opportunities” I’ve “noped” out of in my career just based on asking the right questions about the “culture”? > Are you seriously trying to argue that they're isn't a pretty universal culture of long hours and, often, the expectation of even more hours after work on "passion projects"? I am very much arguing that - based on 25 years of experience and 8 jobs. I have not written a single line of code that I haven’t gotten paid for since graduating from college - in 1996. > Even ignoring small companies and "startup culture", the entire Google campus approach was to encourage people to stay longer and work more, and that seems to be the common model among the big tech companies If that’s not your preferred environment then don’t work for BigTech, there are literally millions of jobs at banks, government, insurance companies and other corporate America jobs where people work 40 hours a week. > That said, I don't know why you think unions can't help fight wage collusion. Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it has to be brought to light to be caught. And it was…
    - snozolli 4y ago
      And it was… The lawsuit was brought in 2011, covering a period beginning in 2005. I guess you think that's optimal. Regardless, your assertion that a union couldn't help with this is entirely unsupported. As for the rest, you can dismiss others all you want, but you know for a fact that what I've written about Bay Area and SV tech is true, and you also know that this site revolves around it. Good for you for whatever you've done, but it's irrelevant to the discussion.