5 ms·

Apple: Whistleblower about Working Conditions

54 points by dalf 4y ago

alimbada 4y ago
This comments section: "Apple can do no wrong."
- rickdeckard 4y ago
  *Looking at evidences and quotes* "Nah, sounds more like <unrelated other company>"
kramerger 4y ago
"When it comes to data, we want more,' an engineer wrote in an internal email." Sounds more like Google execs to me :(
- Xylakant 4y ago
  That quote could have come from me, speaking about building a feature, finding a bug, trying to figure out why something behaves the way it does. Data helps. More data is often good. Research, approval of medication, all of this is based on gathering real-world data, as much as possible, as diverse as possible. The question is how to acquire that data ethically (consent etc.), how to handle it safely and how to dispose of it when it’s no longer needed. But the quote itself out of context is really not much, especially since the data seems to be acquired from people that voluntarily joined a program to gather such data.
  - acumenical 4y ago
    Same. I have uncountably many times made statements like "all the data are belong to us", the quote out of context is meaningless and says nothing about ethical handling of data, which rests on informed consent and secure handling, not random quips.
- rickdeckard 4y ago
  Which reveals a bias that could use some adjustment, no? I personally don't think the quote itself is evil, it should be taken as what it is: A quote with insufficient context. But whatever one's interpretation is, the mental exercise is to not let the judgement of it be distorted of what your brain WANTS it to be.
khazhoux 4y ago
We've seen this case before: * Apple employee files complaint that her building is on a former Superfund site. Apparently that somehow led to a lot of conflict for her personally at the company. * Also claims harassment by co-workers. * And claimed sexism by her manager when he coached her voice mannerisms after a presentation. * Signs up for Apple's "Livability" program, where you use in-development Apple devices and software, giving explicit consent that all your data will be used by Apple. Goes on to use her Apple-issued and Apple-managed device to take personal photos, which she is shocked are used as part of Apple's training/QA pipelines. * Then takes it upon herself to reveal internal Apple secrets, including names, details, and screenshots of internal tools to the public. * And complains that Apple is coming after her for revealing that information. Excellent!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- azinman2 4y ago
  You’re also forgetting her saga about environmental poisoning with her apartment. It seems to me she could have Munchausen's syndrome, and certainly applies it to many things beyond health. Her Apple stuff loses very important context to the non-internal Apple world. It seems she very much sees herself as a victim and actively encourages that viewpoint on Twitter.
- paganel 4y ago
  > * Then takes it upon herself to reveal internal Apple secrets, including names, details, and screenshots of internal tools to the public. So you're saying Apple the company was not spying on its own employees? Was Apple the company not mass-collecting its own employees' biometric data? Let's stick with the presented facts, which might be true or false, let's leave the character assassination thing to people who are actually paid to do that.
  - prepend 4y ago
    Monitoring company devices is not spying on employees. It’s legal and every company does this. If my company gives me a phone, it’s weird that they don’t take every piece of data and monetize it. It’s spying if they harvest data from my private devices or my home. It’s not spying if they have cameras in the workplace where there is no expectation of privacy. If I want privacy, I need to be an independent contractor and use my own equipment. Otherwise it’s just petulant complaining about things that are willingly entered into. If I don’t want biometric data captured, I shouldn’t take a job that does that.
unxdfa 4y ago
Sounds like when I worked for a large defence contractor. Except they didn’t have the competence to pull it off as well. I got to the end of this Twitter thread and basically shrugged. If you don’t like corporate policy, leave, then make reasonable comments outside of any NDA you have signed. Trying to do anything internally unless you have a senior management position is always futile. And don’t come across as a dick, which the person does here.
- adultSwim 4y ago
  > Trying to do anything internally unless you have a senior management position is always futile There is another option, organize. Stay and fight for better conditions. Workers have always had the ability to enact change, when intentionally work together. It's more difficult but the potential gains are greater. This is how we got the 40 hour work week. "Divided we beg, united we bargain"
Xylakant 4y ago
It took me a moment to realize that the thread starts with a quote that makes is sound as if the person is talking about someone. But it’s actually the whistleblower quoting and translating a documentary about herself. (“@ashleygjovik can testify: she was fired for speaking out.”)
acumenical 4y ago
I find it hard to trust her when she seems hellbent on revealing technological secrets then wondering why Apple would want to keep them hidden. Even small businesses keep their leads and trade secrets hidden, why is it suddenly "omerta" when Apple does it? And that's another thing, why is she trying so hard to paint Apple a certain way? Omerta, so Apple is the mafia now? It reeks of forced meme. It makes sense that this all happened after she got a law degree.
etamponi 4y ago
I am a bit perplexed. Working on bad soil -- okay, that's something to care about. But: the "whistleblower" works in a software company, in the middle of a AI race, where data is a fundamental part of the equation -- no data, no AI --, and they complain that their employer asks that they provide as much data as they can, *while being payed by such employer*? To be honest I don't get it. Why is this a problem? How is Apple (or any other company) supposed to produce good ML/AI models without data? Mine is a true perplexity, not a rethorical question: why is everyone so worried about this?
- benwad 4y ago
  I'd argue that, if Apple wants to claim it cares about its users' privacy, it shouldn't be collecting huge amounts of data from users. A company doesn't need to do everything that's profitable all at the same time, and I believe that this will compromise Apple's well-earned image as the privacy-focused hardware and OS maker.
  - sgammon 4y ago
    I don’t think it will compromise that image at all. Siri is locked on your device. Face ID can now protect your drivers license in several states.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kepler1 4y ago
One chooses to work on health, privacy, face / fingerprint / camera apps on iPhone, are given a work iPhone with proprietary / internal experimental software explicitly for use by employees, and are somehow surprised that part of the clearly disclosed and understood purpose is to collect data for use / development of the software? I don't get where term "whistleblower" has any applicability here. There's no secret or violation of what an employee has agreed to. Sounds like someone has an inflated sense of being a victim. Or at least manufacturing some story to get attention.
voytec 4y ago
I'll play Devils' advocate. Has this person not seen, and agreed to, rules for using pre-release devices or even agreements for released devices? Apple became surveillance company under Cook and this should be perfectly clear to Apple employees. To quote South Park's "HumancentiPad" episode: > Hold up. Here it is right here: "by clicking Agree, you are also acknowledging that Apple may sew your mouth to the butthole of another iTunes user" (...) "Apple and its subsidiaries may also, if necessary, sew yet another person's mouth onto your butthole, making you a being that shares one gastral tract." Hmmm, I'm gonna click onnn... "Decline."
gregoriol 4y ago
Looks like this person was not part of the Silicon Vally bros mentality, and that doesn't work well. A lot of people are ok to make all their life mixed with their company, it could provide them some fun. But overall, this way of life is going to fail on them: one has to remember that the company won't care about them.
reledi 4y ago
I’m surprised to see that Ashley has a Wikipedia page. I would not have thought the allegations to be notable enough. But Wikipedia editors seem to disagree in an Article for Deletion [1], citing that there are high-quality sources. News outlets will easily pick up a story about taking on Apple - or anything anti-tech for that matter - and Ashley herself has been very active about it for years. She runs a consulting firm in her name that seems to focus on megacorporation reform but also advertises herself for leadership consulting. The LLC also runs several websites related to the Apple saga: gjovik.co, ashleygjovik.com, whatsintheair.org, justiceatapple.org, iwhistleblower.org 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ashley_Gjøvik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...
iLoveOncall 4y ago
One thing not included in the tweets but in the original article in French is that Apple does ask for permission from the employees for all of those programs, including the one called Glimmer. It's a non-story.

54 points by dalf 4y ago

alimbada 4y ago

This comments section: "Apple can do no wrong."

rickdeckard 4y ago
*Looking at evidences and quotes* "Nah, sounds more like <unrelated other company>"

kramerger 4y ago

"When it comes to data, we want more,' an engineer wrote in an internal email." Sounds more like Google execs to me :(

Xylakant 4y ago
That quote could have come from me, speaking about building a feature, finding a bug, trying to figure out why something behaves the way it does. Data helps. More data is often good. Research, approval of medication, all of this is based on gathering real-world data, as much as possible, as diverse as possible. The question is how to acquire that data ethically (consent etc.), how to handle it safely and how to dispose of it when it’s no longer needed. But the quote itself out of context is really not much, especially since the data seems to be acquired from people that voluntarily joined a program to gather such data.
- acumenical 4y ago
  Same. I have uncountably many times made statements like "all the data are belong to us", the quote out of context is meaningless and says nothing about ethical handling of data, which rests on informed consent and secure handling, not random quips.
rickdeckard 4y ago
Which reveals a bias that could use some adjustment, no? I personally don't think the quote itself is evil, it should be taken as what it is: A quote with insufficient context. But whatever one's interpretation is, the mental exercise is to not let the judgement of it be distorted of what your brain WANTS it to be.

khazhoux 4y ago

We've seen this case before: * Apple employee files complaint that her building is on a former Superfund site. Apparently that somehow led to a lot of conflict for her personally at the company. * Also claims harassment by co-workers. * And claimed sexism by her manager when he coached her voice mannerisms after a presentation. * Signs up for Apple's "Livability" program, where you use in-development Apple devices and software, giving explicit consent that all your data will be used by Apple. Goes on to use her Apple-issued and Apple-managed device to take personal photos, which she is shocked are used as part of Apple's training/QA pipelines. * Then takes it upon herself to reveal internal Apple secrets, including names, details, and screenshots of internal tools to the public. * And complains that Apple is coming after her for revealing that information. Excellent!

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
azinman2 4y ago
You’re also forgetting her saga about environmental poisoning with her apartment. It seems to me she could have Munchausen's syndrome, and certainly applies it to many things beyond health. Her Apple stuff loses very important context to the non-internal Apple world. It seems she very much sees herself as a victim and actively encourages that viewpoint on Twitter.
paganel 4y ago
> * Then takes it upon herself to reveal internal Apple secrets, including names, details, and screenshots of internal tools to the public. So you're saying Apple the company was not spying on its own employees? Was Apple the company not mass-collecting its own employees' biometric data? Let's stick with the presented facts, which might be true or false, let's leave the character assassination thing to people who are actually paid to do that.
- prepend 4y ago
  Monitoring company devices is not spying on employees. It’s legal and every company does this. If my company gives me a phone, it’s weird that they don’t take every piece of data and monetize it. It’s spying if they harvest data from my private devices or my home. It’s not spying if they have cameras in the workplace where there is no expectation of privacy. If I want privacy, I need to be an independent contractor and use my own equipment. Otherwise it’s just petulant complaining about things that are willingly entered into. If I don’t want biometric data captured, I shouldn’t take a job that does that.

unxdfa 4y ago

Sounds like when I worked for a large defence contractor. Except they didn’t have the competence to pull it off as well. I got to the end of this Twitter thread and basically shrugged. If you don’t like corporate policy, leave, then make reasonable comments outside of any NDA you have signed. Trying to do anything internally unless you have a senior management position is always futile. And don’t come across as a dick, which the person does here.

adultSwim 4y ago
> Trying to do anything internally unless you have a senior management position is always futile There is another option, organize. Stay and fight for better conditions. Workers have always had the ability to enact change, when intentionally work together. It's more difficult but the potential gains are greater. This is how we got the 40 hour work week. "Divided we beg, united we bargain"

Xylakant 4y ago

It took me a moment to realize that the thread starts with a quote that makes is sound as if the person is talking about someone. But it’s actually the whistleblower quoting and translating a documentary about herself. (“@ashleygjovik can testify: she was fired for speaking out.”)

acumenical 4y ago

I find it hard to trust her when she seems hellbent on revealing technological secrets then wondering why Apple would want to keep them hidden. Even small businesses keep their leads and trade secrets hidden, why is it suddenly "omerta" when Apple does it? And that's another thing, why is she trying so hard to paint Apple a certain way? Omerta, so Apple is the mafia now? It reeks of forced meme. It makes sense that this all happened after she got a law degree.

etamponi 4y ago

I am a bit perplexed. Working on bad soil -- okay, that's something to care about. But: the "whistleblower" works in a software company, in the middle of a AI race, where data is a fundamental part of the equation -- no data, no AI --, and they complain that their employer asks that they provide as much data as they can, *while being payed by such employer*? To be honest I don't get it. Why is this a problem? How is Apple (or any other company) supposed to produce good ML/AI models without data? Mine is a true perplexity, not a rethorical question: why is everyone so worried about this?

benwad 4y ago
I'd argue that, if Apple wants to claim it cares about its users' privacy, it shouldn't be collecting huge amounts of data from users. A company doesn't need to do everything that's profitable all at the same time, and I believe that this will compromise Apple's well-earned image as the privacy-focused hardware and OS maker.
- sgammon 4y ago
  I don’t think it will compromise that image at all. Siri is locked on your device. Face ID can now protect your drivers license in several states.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kepler1 4y ago

One chooses to work on health, privacy, face / fingerprint / camera apps on iPhone, are given a work iPhone with proprietary / internal experimental software explicitly for use by employees, and are somehow surprised that part of the clearly disclosed and understood purpose is to collect data for use / development of the software? I don't get where term "whistleblower" has any applicability here. There's no secret or violation of what an employee has agreed to. Sounds like someone has an inflated sense of being a victim. Or at least manufacturing some story to get attention.

voytec 4y ago

I'll play Devils' advocate. Has this person not seen, and agreed to, rules for using pre-release devices or even agreements for released devices? Apple became surveillance company under Cook and this should be perfectly clear to Apple employees. To quote South Park's "HumancentiPad" episode: > Hold up. Here it is right here: "by clicking Agree, you are also acknowledging that Apple may sew your mouth to the butthole of another iTunes user" (...) "Apple and its subsidiaries may also, if necessary, sew yet another person's mouth onto your butthole, making you a being that shares one gastral tract." Hmmm, I'm gonna click onnn... "Decline."

gregoriol 4y ago

Looks like this person was not part of the Silicon Vally bros mentality, and that doesn't work well. A lot of people are ok to make all their life mixed with their company, it could provide them some fun. But overall, this way of life is going to fail on them: one has to remember that the company won't care about them.

reledi 4y ago

I’m surprised to see that Ashley has a Wikipedia page. I would not have thought the allegations to be notable enough. But Wikipedia editors seem to disagree in an Article for Deletion [1], citing that there are high-quality sources. News outlets will easily pick up a story about taking on Apple - or anything anti-tech for that matter - and Ashley herself has been very active about it for years. She runs a consulting firm in her name that seems to focus on megacorporation reform but also advertises herself for leadership consulting. The LLC also runs several websites related to the Apple saga: gjovik.co, ashleygjovik.com, whatsintheair.org, justiceatapple.org, iwhistleblower.org 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ashley_Gjøvik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...

iLoveOncall 4y ago

One thing not included in the tweets but in the original article in French is that Apple does ask for permission from the employees for all of those programs, including the one called Glimmer. It's a non-story.