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If you look at this paper: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799116 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

If you look at this paper: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2799116 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... People who got covid vs other viruses. When you follow up with them 3 months later, there is no difference in symptoms between the groups. In other words, long covid symptoms are no worse than any other respiratory virus. So is it covid causing the symptoms, or the pandemic? All signs point to the pandemic, and the response. Every other long covid study are observational, and are likely confounded. Strongly recommend looking deeper at these studies. Very few have control arms, like this study does.

deepfriedchokes 4y ago
[flagged]
- dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
  “Long Covid” is just our euphemism for adverse reactions. The fact that you’re not even allowed to bring this up casts serious doubt on all studies into the phenomenon.
mjevans 4y ago
Maybe the severity of the symptoms is worse; or maybe people are getting medical care more than is common for 'common' colds. The smart parts of the response to the pandemic included: limiting risk / exposure, additional precautions while exposed, and a higher standard of care. Now that the Endemic phase is here we must continue to limit risk where realistic, take precautions (and vaccinations) seriously, and it really would be nice if the _right_ to healthcare were made law and reality.
gotoeleven 4y ago
[flagged]
- viraptor 4y ago
  There's really not much information in just seeing that situation. When I drove for 2min between a supermarket and a clinic, I didn't bother taking it off for example. (Also a good idea not to touch it anyway) You'll need to actually have the context of why they have it on.
  - gotoeleven 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Volundr 4y ago
      > If you're not ripping the mask off first chance you get it's most likely because it gives you psychological comfort like a blankey or a teddy bear. Or maybe their sister has an autoimmune disease and their mother just had open heart surgery. For fucks sake you don't know what's going on in other people's lives.
- Gustomaximus 4y ago
  I've driven around with my mask on. You're busy and having worn it for hours already you dont really think or notice it, until you do half way to your destination type thing. Aligning someone wearing a mask in their car to so mass brainwashing, Id suspect its more likely an innocent reason such as mine vs people thinking they need to wear it in a car.
- mikewarot 4y ago
  How does that prove anything? Maybe it's not their car, or some other passengers just got our, etc. Etc.
  - moffkalast 4y ago
    Maybe nobody cared who they were until they put on the mask. It doesn't matter who they are, what matters is their plan...
- aeontech 4y ago
  Driving alone in a car with a mask on is pretty pointless, but I haven't seen people do that since the height of the pandemic, personally. Probably still happens, but certainly doesn't seem anything on a "mass psychosis" level. On the other hand, I drove with a mask on a few times - but that's when I was sick and attempting to reduce the chances of getting family members present in the car sick too.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    I'd do it when I had several stops to make. No point taking it off and potentially contaminating my hands just to put it back on again. I suspect that accounts for many others doing so too.
bsder 4y ago
> People who got covid vs other viruses. When you follow up with them 3 months later, there is no difference in symptoms between the groups. In other words, long covid symptoms are no worse than any other respiratory virus. Erm, doesn't that also just mean that there is "Long <Insert Any Virus>" that we have been ignoring prior to Covid?
- nostrebored 4y ago
  Post viral symptoms aren’t new. They don’t happen in the prevalence that people claim long COVID at.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  I think that's pretty much the accepted explanation in the medical field? A small percentage of people have always been getting autoimmune and other disorders after a virus infection. With Covid it's just become a lot more obvious given the volume. The way Covid makes the immune system cause irreparable lung scarring that then sticks with people for the rest of their life also probably compounds other problems.
- orwin 4y ago
  Yes, probably. One thing is really different though : I had the flu (the real one) once in my life. I had covid at least twice (the third time I didn't bother getting checked) I as many years.
- acdha 4y ago
  That’s where my thoughts have been leading, too. I remember when people used almost the same kind of condescending tone dismissing myalgic encephalomyelitis as “Incline Village yuppie syndrome” until the weight of evidence won out. I think we’re sort of primed for it with the combination of hard-to-diagnose symptoms and various cultural tropes about whingers, disability cheats, etc. — if it caused unambiguous problems (e.g. polio’s paralysis or when COVID causes lung scarring visible on X-rays) almost everyone would accept that it was real without arguing but when you have the combination of relatively low incidence and things which aren’t easy to find on a simple test, it’s just a bit too easy to dismiss. I suspect the continuing improvements in diagnostic technology are going to push out the upper bounds for how long a case of many diseases can linger. There’s probably also some link to the reminder of our own mortality & the degree to which luck matters: a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of disability and want to believe they have more agency than they do.
randm_sequence 4y ago
This is an incorrect interpretation of this paper. It is comparing COVID positive to assumed COVID non-positive. Also, the methodology is deeply flawed as they took the first 1000 folks to respond. This is an incredibly biased approach, akin to believing that individuals who submit reviews online are from a normal distribution.

deepfriedchokes 4y ago

[flagged]

dontknowwhyihn 4y ago
“Long Covid” is just our euphemism for adverse reactions. The fact that you’re not even allowed to bring this up casts serious doubt on all studies into the phenomenon.

mjevans 4y ago

Maybe the severity of the symptoms is worse; or maybe people are getting medical care more than is common for 'common' colds. The smart parts of the response to the pandemic included: limiting risk / exposure, additional precautions while exposed, and a higher standard of care. Now that the Endemic phase is here we must continue to limit risk where realistic, take precautions (and vaccinations) seriously, and it really would be nice if the _right_ to healthcare were made law and reality.

gotoeleven 4y ago

[flagged]

viraptor 4y ago
There's really not much information in just seeing that situation. When I drove for 2min between a supermarket and a clinic, I didn't bother taking it off for example. (Also a good idea not to touch it anyway) You'll need to actually have the context of why they have it on.
- gotoeleven 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Volundr 4y ago
    > If you're not ripping the mask off first chance you get it's most likely because it gives you psychological comfort like a blankey or a teddy bear. Or maybe their sister has an autoimmune disease and their mother just had open heart surgery. For fucks sake you don't know what's going on in other people's lives.
Gustomaximus 4y ago
I've driven around with my mask on. You're busy and having worn it for hours already you dont really think or notice it, until you do half way to your destination type thing. Aligning someone wearing a mask in their car to so mass brainwashing, Id suspect its more likely an innocent reason such as mine vs people thinking they need to wear it in a car.
mikewarot 4y ago
How does that prove anything? Maybe it's not their car, or some other passengers just got our, etc. Etc.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Maybe nobody cared who they were until they put on the mask. It doesn't matter who they are, what matters is their plan...
aeontech 4y ago
Driving alone in a car with a mask on is pretty pointless, but I haven't seen people do that since the height of the pandemic, personally. Probably still happens, but certainly doesn't seem anything on a "mass psychosis" level. On the other hand, I drove with a mask on a few times - but that's when I was sick and attempting to reduce the chances of getting family members present in the car sick too.
- Volundr 4y ago
  I'd do it when I had several stops to make. No point taking it off and potentially contaminating my hands just to put it back on again. I suspect that accounts for many others doing so too.

bsder 4y ago

> People who got covid vs other viruses. When you follow up with them 3 months later, there is no difference in symptoms between the groups. In other words, long covid symptoms are no worse than any other respiratory virus. Erm, doesn't that also just mean that there is "Long <Insert Any Virus>" that we have been ignoring prior to Covid?

nostrebored 4y ago
Post viral symptoms aren’t new. They don’t happen in the prevalence that people claim long COVID at.
moffkalast 4y ago
I think that's pretty much the accepted explanation in the medical field? A small percentage of people have always been getting autoimmune and other disorders after a virus infection. With Covid it's just become a lot more obvious given the volume. The way Covid makes the immune system cause irreparable lung scarring that then sticks with people for the rest of their life also probably compounds other problems.
orwin 4y ago
Yes, probably. One thing is really different though : I had the flu (the real one) once in my life. I had covid at least twice (the third time I didn't bother getting checked) I as many years.
acdha 4y ago
That’s where my thoughts have been leading, too. I remember when people used almost the same kind of condescending tone dismissing myalgic encephalomyelitis as “Incline Village yuppie syndrome” until the weight of evidence won out. I think we’re sort of primed for it with the combination of hard-to-diagnose symptoms and various cultural tropes about whingers, disability cheats, etc. — if it caused unambiguous problems (e.g. polio’s paralysis or when COVID causes lung scarring visible on X-rays) almost everyone would accept that it was real without arguing but when you have the combination of relatively low incidence and things which aren’t easy to find on a simple test, it’s just a bit too easy to dismiss. I suspect the continuing improvements in diagnostic technology are going to push out the upper bounds for how long a case of many diseases can linger. There’s probably also some link to the reminder of our own mortality & the degree to which luck matters: a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of disability and want to believe they have more agency than they do.

randm_sequence 4y ago

This is an incorrect interpretation of this paper. It is comparing COVID positive to assumed COVID non-positive. Also, the methodology is deeply flawed as they took the first 1000 folks to respond. This is an incredibly biased approach, akin to believing that individuals who submit reviews online are from a normal distribution.