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Wayland has a massive loss in functionality (in the name of "security" and off-loading implementation details to compositors/window managers) compared to X11 th

by _vbnz 4y ago

Wayland has a massive loss in functionality (in the name of "security" and off-loading implementation details to compositors/window managers) compared to X11 though. Stuff like xdotool, screen sharing, clipboard sharing, etc. is much harder.

markrages 4y ago
sloppy-focus-follows-mouse is the feature that keeps me on X. A basic Unix feature forever, completely broken in Ubuntu's Wayland.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  It works fine on Arch with the Hyprland compositor: putting the mouse from the terminal to waybar, you can still type in the terminal. When was the last time you really tried wayland? My first (and last) time was 2017. Much has changed! In a few years, when wine support is perfected, I think people dissing wayland will be seen as quaint as those insisting on a distribution "unsoiled" by systemd are seen today :)
  - markrages 4y ago
    I tried it up to last month in Ubuntu 22.04. I changed back because I got tired of the broken focus-follows-mouse and Ubuntu tracks the bug but doesn't fix it.
recuter 4y ago
Wait just a second mister. Is it a loss of functionality or is it just "much harder"?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Why not both? It's a loss in functionality because it's much harder and the Linux desktop environment ecosystem is too niche, fragmented and underfunded to make the transition complete in a way that satisfies all camps so we end up in this traditional linux situation where several solutions coexist in parallel forever.
  - recuter 4y ago
    Time heals all wounds. If it is hard but not impossible eventually the gaps will be filled. Also the people who maintain X11 can't live forever sadly. Eventually there will only be Wayland. We only have to wait a few more decades at the outmost.
- zamalek 4y ago
  Neither. Screensharing was a massive issue for a while, but it's now far easier than X11 because the server/portal is responsible for a lot of the more fiddly bits. The underlying problem is that the protocol (ABI, really) has to be specified and implemented for these things to work. Screensharing was a prominent early example of something which hadn't been through that process. It was a very visible issue, an easy wound for hardcore X11 fanatics to pull at, and - apparently - continue to bash on long after it has been solved. Clipboard woes have likewise been solved. Mouse and keyboard injection has not yet been solved, but I recall there being some draft spec to that effect. Ultimately, if Wayland does 100% of what you need, you should be using it because it generally does those things better. If it doesn't do what you need, then stick with X11 until it does (and support for that protocol is widespread).

by _vbnz 4y ago

markrages 4y ago

sloppy-focus-follows-mouse is the feature that keeps me on X. A basic Unix feature forever, completely broken in Ubuntu's Wayland.

csdvrx 4y ago
It works fine on Arch with the Hyprland compositor: putting the mouse from the terminal to waybar, you can still type in the terminal. When was the last time you really tried wayland? My first (and last) time was 2017. Much has changed! In a few years, when wine support is perfected, I think people dissing wayland will be seen as quaint as those insisting on a distribution "unsoiled" by systemd are seen today :)
- markrages 4y ago
  I tried it up to last month in Ubuntu 22.04. I changed back because I got tired of the broken focus-follows-mouse and Ubuntu tracks the bug but doesn't fix it.

recuter 4y ago

Wait just a second mister. Is it a loss of functionality or is it just "much harder"?

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Why not both? It's a loss in functionality because it's much harder and the Linux desktop environment ecosystem is too niche, fragmented and underfunded to make the transition complete in a way that satisfies all camps so we end up in this traditional linux situation where several solutions coexist in parallel forever.
- recuter 4y ago
  Time heals all wounds. If it is hard but not impossible eventually the gaps will be filled. Also the people who maintain X11 can't live forever sadly. Eventually there will only be Wayland. We only have to wait a few more decades at the outmost.
zamalek 4y ago
Neither. Screensharing was a massive issue for a while, but it's now far easier than X11 because the server/portal is responsible for a lot of the more fiddly bits. The underlying problem is that the protocol (ABI, really) has to be specified and implemented for these things to work. Screensharing was a prominent early example of something which hadn't been through that process. It was a very visible issue, an easy wound for hardcore X11 fanatics to pull at, and - apparently - continue to bash on long after it has been solved. Clipboard woes have likewise been solved. Mouse and keyboard injection has not yet been solved, but I recall there being some draft spec to that effect. Ultimately, if Wayland does 100% of what you need, you should be using it because it generally does those things better. If it doesn't do what you need, then stick with X11 until it does (and support for that protocol is widespread).