11 ms·

It only took 7 minutes for someone to come in and do... almost exactly what the above poster was describing. There's no way this isn't a simulation.

csallen 4y ago
Hacker News is a discussion forum. Not only that, but it's one where the culture is defined by a contrarian-yet-intellectual spirit. It's the last place anyone should come to share opinions without expecting a response, likely a critical one.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > It's the last place anyone should come to share opinions without expecting a response, likely a critical one. Sure, but this topic is "special" in the sense that the response GP is complaining about is about the most uncritical, non-contrarian, obvious possible one. If you view conversations as a multiplayer gradient descent, then making an accusation - even an implied and/or non-specific - of racism, sexism, bigotry and associated "sins", is like making a huge sinkhole on the optimization surface: a very deep local minimum, nearly impossible to walk out of. It's so easy for anyone to do this, and the effect is both immediate and so obvious, that when someone does that, it's hard not to see it as a deliberate attempt at shutting down the conversation. It's equivalent of someone pulling a gun in the middle of what the other person thought was friendly sparring.
samtp 4y ago
So free speech to express any opinion but not free speech to respond to opinions expressed? 99% of the time that someone decries the "death of free speech", it boils down to them not wanting to hear criticism for expressing ignorant or hateful ideas. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. And if you do say something that is stupid or is harmful to others, you should expect push back. If you have no defense for that push back, it's a clear sign that you should either re-evaluate your opinion or express yourself in a more thoughtful manner. This is a lesson that most people learn in grade school. But one of the big issues today is that a lot of people believe that others not accepting their opinion is a form of persecution. They are so self-centered that criticism of what they say is taken as an insult to them personally. Criticism of these people lead to no moments of self-reflection and no moments of personal growth. The big question for me is how do we move past this moment without a large number of people realizing that they are acting like spoiled children. Speech is as free as it's ever been. What's different is an entitlement behind expressing opinions that destroys any meaningful discussion.
- jimbokun 4y ago
  "But one of the big issues today is that a lot of people believe that others not accepting their opinion is a form of persecution. They are so self-centered that criticism of what they say is taken as an insult to them personally. Criticism of these people lead to no moments of self-reflection and no moment" The colloquial term for these people is "woke".
  - samtp 4y ago
    Well under oath in court, DeSantis General Counsel Ryan Newman defined woke as: “the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them” [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article269675311.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article269675... What do you think is wrong with the belief that there are systemic injustices in American society that should be addressed?
    - jimbokun 4y ago
      I like my definition of "woke" better.
      - samtp 4y ago
        Using your definition, most people who use the term "woke" as an insult are in fact super woke themselves.
        jimbokun 4y ago
        Sure.
        jimbokun 4y ago
        Here's an example where everyone involved seems to be employing woke thinking, from opposite political angles: https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/white-student-sues-historically-black-college-howard-university-for-2m-over-racial-discrimination/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/white-student-sues-historicall... Not arguing about facts and opinions, just about who was more "harmed" by the other parties speech. Not that the arguments presented are dumb and ridiculous, or even ridiculing a person for holding those views. But an attempt to litigate harms based on their individual identities. (The label "white panther" I find pretty funny and a good example of battling bad speech with counter speech.)
heavyset_go 4y ago
Apparently only the top-level GP is allowed to push back on what other people say or do, but when the OP you're replying to exercises their right to free speech to do the same, it's the end of the world. It's an interesting double standard.
- SheepSlapper 4y ago
  It's not the end of the world, I was just poking fun at a goofball who didn't see the irony in his kneejerk response. I'm a free speech absolutist, so I support his right to say whatever the heck he wants. That's how I know he's a goofy dude, I read a bunch of his replies in this thread and he CONTINUES to put his foot in his mouth. Also, this hyperbolic style of response (end of the world, racism, xenophobia, the other million examples in the thread) is part of what the OP was saying is a problem today. Nuance in dialog seems to be lost, and the second someone disagrees instead of coming back with a well reasoned response, it's "oh so you YEARN for the days when minorities weren't even considered human?!" and the conversation ends. That's boring. Strive to be less boring. It's not comfortable but it's worthwhile.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I would rather die than not engage in joking hyperbole.
lukas099 4y ago
Your standard of proof for 'this is a simulation' seems low to me...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

csallen 4y ago

Hacker News is a discussion forum. Not only that, but it's one where the culture is defined by a contrarian-yet-intellectual spirit. It's the last place anyone should come to share opinions without expecting a response, likely a critical one.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
> It's the last place anyone should come to share opinions without expecting a response, likely a critical one. Sure, but this topic is "special" in the sense that the response GP is complaining about is about the most uncritical, non-contrarian, obvious possible one. If you view conversations as a multiplayer gradient descent, then making an accusation - even an implied and/or non-specific - of racism, sexism, bigotry and associated "sins", is like making a huge sinkhole on the optimization surface: a very deep local minimum, nearly impossible to walk out of. It's so easy for anyone to do this, and the effect is both immediate and so obvious, that when someone does that, it's hard not to see it as a deliberate attempt at shutting down the conversation. It's equivalent of someone pulling a gun in the middle of what the other person thought was friendly sparring.

samtp 4y ago

So free speech to express any opinion but not free speech to respond to opinions expressed? 99% of the time that someone decries the "death of free speech", it boils down to them not wanting to hear criticism for expressing ignorant or hateful ideas. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. And if you do say something that is stupid or is harmful to others, you should expect push back. If you have no defense for that push back, it's a clear sign that you should either re-evaluate your opinion or express yourself in a more thoughtful manner. This is a lesson that most people learn in grade school. But one of the big issues today is that a lot of people believe that others not accepting their opinion is a form of persecution. They are so self-centered that criticism of what they say is taken as an insult to them personally. Criticism of these people lead to no moments of self-reflection and no moments of personal growth. The big question for me is how do we move past this moment without a large number of people realizing that they are acting like spoiled children. Speech is as free as it's ever been. What's different is an entitlement behind expressing opinions that destroys any meaningful discussion.

jimbokun 4y ago
"But one of the big issues today is that a lot of people believe that others not accepting their opinion is a form of persecution. They are so self-centered that criticism of what they say is taken as an insult to them personally. Criticism of these people lead to no moments of self-reflection and no moment" The colloquial term for these people is "woke".
- samtp 4y ago
  Well under oath in court, DeSantis General Counsel Ryan Newman defined woke as: “the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them” [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article269675311.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article269675... What do you think is wrong with the belief that there are systemic injustices in American society that should be addressed?
  - jimbokun 4y ago
    I like my definition of "woke" better.
    - samtp 4y ago
      Using your definition, most people who use the term "woke" as an insult are in fact super woke themselves.
      - jimbokun 4y ago
        Sure.
      - jimbokun 4y ago
        Here's an example where everyone involved seems to be employing woke thinking, from opposite political angles: https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/white-student-sues-historically-black-college-howard-university-for-2m-over-racial-discrimination/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/white-student-sues-historicall... Not arguing about facts and opinions, just about who was more "harmed" by the other parties speech. Not that the arguments presented are dumb and ridiculous, or even ridiculing a person for holding those views. But an attempt to litigate harms based on their individual identities. (The label "white panther" I find pretty funny and a good example of battling bad speech with counter speech.)

heavyset_go 4y ago

Apparently only the top-level GP is allowed to push back on what other people say or do, but when the OP you're replying to exercises their right to free speech to do the same, it's the end of the world. It's an interesting double standard.

SheepSlapper 4y ago
It's not the end of the world, I was just poking fun at a goofball who didn't see the irony in his kneejerk response. I'm a free speech absolutist, so I support his right to say whatever the heck he wants. That's how I know he's a goofy dude, I read a bunch of his replies in this thread and he CONTINUES to put his foot in his mouth. Also, this hyperbolic style of response (end of the world, racism, xenophobia, the other million examples in the thread) is part of what the OP was saying is a problem today. Nuance in dialog seems to be lost, and the second someone disagrees instead of coming back with a well reasoned response, it's "oh so you YEARN for the days when minorities weren't even considered human?!" and the conversation ends. That's boring. Strive to be less boring. It's not comfortable but it's worthwhile.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I would rather die than not engage in joking hyperbole.

lukas099 4y ago

Your standard of proof for 'this is a simulation' seems low to me...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]