7 ms·

But, but, but .... don't be evil.

Eumenes 4y ago
But did you see the Year in Search video, it was so inspiring!
klyrs 4y ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only evil to a capitalist is loss of capital. The "don't be evil" motto still applies. Just not the way that you're accustomed to reading it.
- CatWChainsaw 4y ago
  I'm surprised you're getting downvoted given the amount of snark in other comments. Or is the directness the part we're not supposed to be saying out loud?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - uoaei 4y ago
      Economics isn't culture. "Culture war" isn't just "disagreements", it's disagreements about things that only exist in the realm of culture, e.g. saggy pants or watching people of the same gender kiss on TV. Economics, in fact, plays a central role here, given the profit motive that, to the bad actors, justifies these actions despite their illegality.
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        > A culture war is a cultural conflict between social groups and the struggle for dominance of their values, beliefs, and practices.[1] It commonly refers to topics on which there is general societal disagreement and polarization in societal values. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war It sounds like you are confusing culture with aesthetics.
        uoaei 4y ago
        Where in that definition do you propose governance comes in? Do you think culture is governable? To me, culture lies outside the scope of governance entirely -- it's literally just what people do to express themselves and the ways they like to spend their time. > Societal values Notice it doesn't say economic or material values.
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        Was their practice of direct democracy an important part of ancient Greek culture? (Yes! And it's Republic forms were also part of their culture!) Does the age of monarchy still have impacts on the UK? My imported gin still says "By Order of Her Majesty" on it. "God save the Queen" (or now King) is, intrinsically, part of UK culture. > values, beliefs, and practices That includes practices of law keeping, beliefs in how the law is executed, altered and enshrined, etc. In the US specifically, the founding fathers wrote _at length_ on capitalism, the free market, and how communal economic systems (they were writing prior to Marx) didn't scale. Our society is built on capitalism, through and through.
        uoaei 4y ago
        That's politics, not culture. Culture is not just "the way people are". We can't just pretend words mean what we want them to mean. Language as a means of communion requires more from us.
        joadha 4y ago
        They criticized Google for holding a value they perceived to be at odds with the underlying economic system. During a discussion of said company's defiance of a federal judge, such a critique seems pertinent to me! We have continually observed the most powerful actors in our system abusing it in consistent ways: cornering markets, becoming monopolies, bullying smaller companies, constructing walled gardens, diminishing the concept of consumer ownership, etc. I think we ought to allow comments like theirs in discussions like this.
    - dd36 4y ago
      You can’t flush the drugs down the toilet!
    - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
      I suppose it never occurred to you that the "issue" could be an example of a battle in a culture war. The culture here is capitalism. Capitalism is a worship of capital and its acquisition by any means. Including pushing for new fuels that give 25% of people cancer, or by breaking unions that are trying to prevent East Palestines, or by classifying people as "independent contractors" to avoid paying for benefits, or by swallowing up competition, or by then attempting to thwart a costly antitrust lawsuit by "accidentally" losing evidence. Google's culture was "don't be evil", and then capitalism happened (see above) and we get the parent remark: "the only evil to a capitalist is loss of capital" Now what was it you were saying about a dress code?
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        What economic system do you think this wouldn't happen under? I'd like to point out that it was specifically the Whitehouse, under Biden, which withdrew the ability of train unions to negotiate via strike. That isn't capitalism. That was an administration making a choice because they felt additional grocery store shortages would hurt their polling numbers. That wasn't the free market - that was Government Intervention. And why is it that gigs where people are ICs are desirable? Why do so many people work for Uber? If it's a bad gig, why take it? I've talked to a lot of Uber drivers and they like it - they can work as much or as little as they want and adapt their driving to their income needs. That doesn't sound like "capitalism". Capitalism, as you use it here, might as well be Satan. Lost your lunch? That was Satan. Tripped on the way to school? Satan again. It's everywhere, it's the thing always at fault, no further explanation needed. It's a word that says "stop thinking, we have the cause of the problem - it's Capitalism".
  - klyrs 4y ago
    You can criticize a person, you can criticize a company, but criticizing capitalism itself is never popular here. I've been called a communist for literally quoting Adam Smith.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Because we are talking about a specific company and their actions.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        So was I. My crime is not seeing Google's ethical lapses in isolation?
        themitigating 4y ago
        Yes?
  - crabkin 4y ago
    the people who can downvote on this site all have remarkably similar political/ethical positions, or it is my impression at least that is the case. really makes you think huh
    - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
      As far as I know, you can downvote when you have 500 karma. But it is interesting that the people with that amount seem to run in the bootstraps go brrrr crowd, eh?
- bogwog 4y ago
  > The "don't be evil" motto still applies. Not exactly: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393 https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
  - jvolkman 4y ago
    > The updated version of Google’s code of conduct still retains one reference to the company’s unofficial motto—the final line of the document is still: “And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!”
- gameman144 4y ago
  Eh, I'd identify as a capitalist and there are definitely lots of evil things far worse than loss of capital. Capitalism need not imply anarchy or surrendering our moral compass.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    According to far too many, a corporation's sole duty is to the enrichment of its shareholders. I speak not of an ideal capitalism, but of capitalism as it is practiced.
    - gameman144 4y ago
      Oh, I agree that that's what corporations should be doing -- I just trust my government to give them laws and regulations to follow, to steer the lumbering economic engine to the goals that we as society value. (I also tend to think that companies that people think are good tend to last and have broad social support, so doing good does have merits even to bloodthirsty capitalists). If companies break those laws or regulations, the penalties should be extremely steep (I imagine we probably agree on this bit, but let me know if not).

But did you see the Year in Search video, it was so inspiring!

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only evil to a capitalist is loss of capital. The "don't be evil" motto still applies. Just not the way that you're accustomed to reading it.

CatWChainsaw 4y ago
I'm surprised you're getting downvoted given the amount of snark in other comments. Or is the directness the part we're not supposed to be saying out loud?
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Economics isn't culture. "Culture war" isn't just "disagreements", it's disagreements about things that only exist in the realm of culture, e.g. saggy pants or watching people of the same gender kiss on TV. Economics, in fact, plays a central role here, given the profit motive that, to the bad actors, justifies these actions despite their illegality.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      > A culture war is a cultural conflict between social groups and the struggle for dominance of their values, beliefs, and practices.[1] It commonly refers to topics on which there is general societal disagreement and polarization in societal values. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war It sounds like you are confusing culture with aesthetics.
      - uoaei 4y ago
        Where in that definition do you propose governance comes in? Do you think culture is governable? To me, culture lies outside the scope of governance entirely -- it's literally just what people do to express themselves and the ways they like to spend their time. > Societal values Notice it doesn't say economic or material values.
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        Was their practice of direct democracy an important part of ancient Greek culture? (Yes! And it's Republic forms were also part of their culture!) Does the age of monarchy still have impacts on the UK? My imported gin still says "By Order of Her Majesty" on it. "God save the Queen" (or now King) is, intrinsically, part of UK culture. > values, beliefs, and practices That includes practices of law keeping, beliefs in how the law is executed, altered and enshrined, etc. In the US specifically, the founding fathers wrote _at length_ on capitalism, the free market, and how communal economic systems (they were writing prior to Marx) didn't scale. Our society is built on capitalism, through and through.
        uoaei 4y ago
        That's politics, not culture. Culture is not just "the way people are". We can't just pretend words mean what we want them to mean. Language as a means of communion requires more from us.
      - joadha 4y ago
        They criticized Google for holding a value they perceived to be at odds with the underlying economic system. During a discussion of said company's defiance of a federal judge, such a critique seems pertinent to me! We have continually observed the most powerful actors in our system abusing it in consistent ways: cornering markets, becoming monopolies, bullying smaller companies, constructing walled gardens, diminishing the concept of consumer ownership, etc. I think we ought to allow comments like theirs in discussions like this.
  - dd36 4y ago
    You can’t flush the drugs down the toilet!
  - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
    I suppose it never occurred to you that the "issue" could be an example of a battle in a culture war. The culture here is capitalism. Capitalism is a worship of capital and its acquisition by any means. Including pushing for new fuels that give 25% of people cancer, or by breaking unions that are trying to prevent East Palestines, or by classifying people as "independent contractors" to avoid paying for benefits, or by swallowing up competition, or by then attempting to thwart a costly antitrust lawsuit by "accidentally" losing evidence. Google's culture was "don't be evil", and then capitalism happened (see above) and we get the parent remark: "the only evil to a capitalist is loss of capital" Now what was it you were saying about a dress code?
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      What economic system do you think this wouldn't happen under? I'd like to point out that it was specifically the Whitehouse, under Biden, which withdrew the ability of train unions to negotiate via strike. That isn't capitalism. That was an administration making a choice because they felt additional grocery store shortages would hurt their polling numbers. That wasn't the free market - that was Government Intervention. And why is it that gigs where people are ICs are desirable? Why do so many people work for Uber? If it's a bad gig, why take it? I've talked to a lot of Uber drivers and they like it - they can work as much or as little as they want and adapt their driving to their income needs. That doesn't sound like "capitalism". Capitalism, as you use it here, might as well be Satan. Lost your lunch? That was Satan. Tripped on the way to school? Satan again. It's everywhere, it's the thing always at fault, no further explanation needed. It's a word that says "stop thinking, we have the cause of the problem - it's Capitalism".
- klyrs 4y ago
  You can criticize a person, you can criticize a company, but criticizing capitalism itself is never popular here. I've been called a communist for literally quoting Adam Smith.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Because we are talking about a specific company and their actions.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      So was I. My crime is not seeing Google's ethical lapses in isolation?
      - themitigating 4y ago
        Yes?
- crabkin 4y ago
  the people who can downvote on this site all have remarkably similar political/ethical positions, or it is my impression at least that is the case. really makes you think huh
  - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
    As far as I know, you can downvote when you have 500 karma. But it is interesting that the people with that amount seem to run in the bootstraps go brrrr crowd, eh?
bogwog 4y ago
> The "don't be evil" motto still applies. Not exactly: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393 https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
- jvolkman 4y ago
  > The updated version of Google’s code of conduct still retains one reference to the company’s unofficial motto—the final line of the document is still: “And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!”
gameman144 4y ago
Eh, I'd identify as a capitalist and there are definitely lots of evil things far worse than loss of capital. Capitalism need not imply anarchy or surrendering our moral compass.
- klyrs 4y ago
  According to far too many, a corporation's sole duty is to the enrichment of its shareholders. I speak not of an ideal capitalism, but of capitalism as it is practiced.
  - gameman144 4y ago
    Oh, I agree that that's what corporations should be doing -- I just trust my government to give them laws and regulations to follow, to steer the lumbering economic engine to the goals that we as society value. (I also tend to think that companies that people think are good tend to last and have broad social support, so doing good does have merits even to bloodthirsty capitalists). If companies break those laws or regulations, the penalties should be extremely steep (I imagine we probably agree on this bit, but let me know if not).