6 ms·

Seattle is doing tons of stuff. They recently upzoned a huge amount of the city, approved ranked choice voting, approved social housing, expanded rail, fixed a

Seattle is doing tons of stuff. They recently upzoned a huge amount of the city, approved ranked choice voting, approved social housing, expanded rail, fixed a major bridge failure before it failed, and plenty more. Crime rates are down, the city has grown astronomically, etc.

the_doctah 4y ago
I had a feeling your claim about crime rate was untrue so I googled it. It turned out to be wildly untrue. Crime rates are way up. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-violent-crime-hits-15-year-high-other-takeaways-from-new-report/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattl... It's a "soft on crime" blue city. Crime doesn't go down.
- yeahbutiguess 4y ago
  https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/is-seattle-dying-not-if-you-look-crime-rates-from-the-80s-and-90s/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/is-seattle-dy... Look at these graphs. Crime has consistently fallen. The article you linked is discussing a recent uptick after a stable period of low crime. They've cherry picked the statistics to not show the huge drop in crime over the past 40 years. Yes, crime is down in Seattle.
  - the_doctah 4y ago
    Read this report please. https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Police/Reports/2022_SPD_CRIME_REPORT_FINAL.pdf https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Police/Reports...
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      Read this report by a group strongly incentivized to and rewarded by a creation of the perception that crime is high, about how high you should perceive crime to be.
      - the_doctah 4y ago
        Where I'm from we call it a "primary source".
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        When you learned how to use primary sources did they teach you to take them at face value without any consideration of the purpose, goals, constraints, and motivations of the people who created them?
        the_doctah 4y ago
        I'm curious what other source you would even reference in this situation? Also do you really think the police intentionally misreport numbers that make themselves look bad?
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        I doubt there's a single trustworthy authoritative source that presents a complete picture. I'm not saying completely ignore or dismiss what the police say, but consider it in its context as one piece of information, published by an organization with its own needs and biases, rather than the single defining instance. Police definitely lie a lot, and invest significant resources in outreach and PR, which we would straightforwardly call propaganda if someone else was doing it. The motivations are probably more complex than just what makes them look bad. And the mechanisms are probably more sophisticated than simply publishing completely false data in a report. > Also do you really think the police intentionally misreport numbers that make themselves look bad? But basically yes I do.
    - yeahbutiguess 4y ago
      I have. I've lived here for nearly 40 years. I've been active in politics here and I've experience with both the data and the anecdotes. Seattle has less crime then it did 40, 30, and 20 years ago. The past three years were exceptional and the report does indicate increased rates of violent crime. But we had a global pandemic, a contentious election, a spotlight on police brutality, etc. I guess you can make the call, whether you think that's a trend or an anomaly, but when I look at the data I see us having a crime rate half of what it used to be, with an uptick in the most unusual years in a generation.
      - the_doctah 4y ago
        What do you think that Seattle is doing right to combat crime?
        zardo 4y ago
        They still have cops, courts, and jails in Seattle.
      - edgyquant 4y ago
        [flagged]
        206lol 4y ago
        They supplied data from the state showing the longer trend line. Scroll up a few comments. Both posters are correct, and supplied data. Crime rates are half what they used to be, that's true. Crime rates have also gone up very recently, that's also true. No need to be so hostile.
edgyquant 4y ago
Social housing is a horrible idea and it only passed because voter turnout is so low. Seattle is doing a lot of nothing and anyone living here can tell you that.

the_doctah 4y ago

I had a feeling your claim about crime rate was untrue so I googled it. It turned out to be wildly untrue. Crime rates are way up. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-violent-crime-hits-15-year-high-other-takeaways-from-new-report/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattl... It's a "soft on crime" blue city. Crime doesn't go down.

yeahbutiguess 4y ago
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/is-seattle-dying-not-if-you-look-crime-rates-from-the-80s-and-90s/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/is-seattle-dy... Look at these graphs. Crime has consistently fallen. The article you linked is discussing a recent uptick after a stable period of low crime. They've cherry picked the statistics to not show the huge drop in crime over the past 40 years. Yes, crime is down in Seattle.
- the_doctah 4y ago
  Read this report please. https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Police/Reports/2022_SPD_CRIME_REPORT_FINAL.pdf https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Police/Reports...
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Read this report by a group strongly incentivized to and rewarded by a creation of the perception that crime is high, about how high you should perceive crime to be.
    - the_doctah 4y ago
      Where I'm from we call it a "primary source".
      - giraffe_lady 4y ago
        When you learned how to use primary sources did they teach you to take them at face value without any consideration of the purpose, goals, constraints, and motivations of the people who created them?
        the_doctah 4y ago
        I'm curious what other source you would even reference in this situation? Also do you really think the police intentionally misreport numbers that make themselves look bad?
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        I doubt there's a single trustworthy authoritative source that presents a complete picture. I'm not saying completely ignore or dismiss what the police say, but consider it in its context as one piece of information, published by an organization with its own needs and biases, rather than the single defining instance. Police definitely lie a lot, and invest significant resources in outreach and PR, which we would straightforwardly call propaganda if someone else was doing it. The motivations are probably more complex than just what makes them look bad. And the mechanisms are probably more sophisticated than simply publishing completely false data in a report. > Also do you really think the police intentionally misreport numbers that make themselves look bad? But basically yes I do.
  - yeahbutiguess 4y ago
    I have. I've lived here for nearly 40 years. I've been active in politics here and I've experience with both the data and the anecdotes. Seattle has less crime then it did 40, 30, and 20 years ago. The past three years were exceptional and the report does indicate increased rates of violent crime. But we had a global pandemic, a contentious election, a spotlight on police brutality, etc. I guess you can make the call, whether you think that's a trend or an anomaly, but when I look at the data I see us having a crime rate half of what it used to be, with an uptick in the most unusual years in a generation.
    - the_doctah 4y ago
      What do you think that Seattle is doing right to combat crime?
      - zardo 4y ago
        They still have cops, courts, and jails in Seattle.
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - 206lol 4y ago
        They supplied data from the state showing the longer trend line. Scroll up a few comments. Both posters are correct, and supplied data. Crime rates are half what they used to be, that's true. Crime rates have also gone up very recently, that's also true. No need to be so hostile.

edgyquant 4y ago

Social housing is a horrible idea and it only passed because voter turnout is so low. Seattle is doing a lot of nothing and anyone living here can tell you that.