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The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead o

The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead of staying at the injection site.

vincnetas 4y ago
Can you explain why circulation is not ok? Are vaccines designed to not circulate in blood streams?
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > not circulate in blood streams? when you do an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection you don't end up in the blood stream typically
  - rcme 4y ago
    Is that true? I remember my daughter had a severe bacterial infection and they couldn't get an IV in her so they did an intramuscular injection of antibiotics.
- briandon 4y ago
  The mRNA-based covid shots (and the adenovirus-vector covid shots) are a wee bit different in how they operate than pre-covid vaccines. Modified covid spike proteins are produced by host (i.e. a vaccinee's) cells. The spike proteins are anchored within the cells but "poke out" through the cellular membranes so they're able to elicit an immune system response. The cells expressing the mod-spike are ultimately destroyed. If you review pop-sci / marketing materials produced by Pfizer and Moderna and government agencies and non-profits who promoted the shots, the fate of these cells will be glossed over, but that's what happens. This is why it was important that the contents of the jabs stayed in the muscle tissue near the injection site and the process of translating all of the vax mRNA into mod-spike be rapid. If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed and, if enough cells in the wrong place at the wrong time were destroyed this way, bad things could happen. Observing vax mRNA persisting or existing weeks and weeks post-administration is not good for this (and additional) reasons.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    Now I'm curious, if you get infected by the virus itself, does the same thing not happen?
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    How do you supposed "normal" vaccines work?
  - braingenious 4y ago
    You speak really confidently on this topic, can you share your background with regards to immunology/bioscience?
    - fidgewidge 4y ago
      Everything he's saying is common knowledge to anyone who has researched this topic. Having a background in bioscience would not help and most likely hurt, because people within those fields are highly incentivized to suppress bad news about their prior actions.
      - braingenious 4y ago
        To quote GP > If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed… This is something that you would consider to be common knowledge?
        fidgewidge 4y ago
        To anyone who has researched this topic, yes, and many other things. How do you think the mRNA vaccines work? If you got interested in vaccines around the middle of 2021 and started finding and subscribing to the right blogs and people, you know a whole lot of things about this topic that other people don't. These sorts of threads are a bit frustrating because it involves watching people catch up to where we were 12 months ago.
mlyle 4y ago
> instead of staying at the injection site. We've known that forever. There's been studies done with luciferase to see where the mRNA triggers protein production in small animals. We know that a big portion of the activity is in the liver, distant from the IM injection site (a lot of the activity is at the site, too). e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ "When mRNA-LNPs were injected intramuscularly and intratracheally, similar to intravenous and intraperitoneal deliveries, a large portion of the luciferase activity was detectable in the liver, demonstrating systemic spread of the nanoparticles."
- zpeti 4y ago
  Yes, and people like Bret Weinstein say this is a massive problem and why there’s heart inflammation, if the mrna enters heart muscle your immune system might well attack it, the problem is - heart muscle does not get remade.
  - RockRobotRock 4y ago
    Bret Weinstein is an obvious grifter
  - mlyle 4y ago
    The problem with this is that there's simpler explanations. Myocarditis is more frequent with C19 infection than vaccination, so it seems spike protein circulating is "enough". Also this study didn't find significant uptake of mRNA in the heart (though it did find notable uptake in the lungs).
    - nwienert 4y ago
      The Mycocarditis line is not true - it highly depends on gender and age. Repeating that its more frequent for infection outright is wrong, it is only in certain sub-populations (female, older).
      - mlyle 4y ago

The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead of staying at the injection site.

vincnetas 4y ago

Can you explain why circulation is not ok? Are vaccines designed to not circulate in blood streams?

ekianjo 4y ago
> not circulate in blood streams? when you do an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection you don't end up in the blood stream typically
- rcme 4y ago
  Is that true? I remember my daughter had a severe bacterial infection and they couldn't get an IV in her so they did an intramuscular injection of antibiotics.
briandon 4y ago
The mRNA-based covid shots (and the adenovirus-vector covid shots) are a wee bit different in how they operate than pre-covid vaccines. Modified covid spike proteins are produced by host (i.e. a vaccinee's) cells. The spike proteins are anchored within the cells but "poke out" through the cellular membranes so they're able to elicit an immune system response. The cells expressing the mod-spike are ultimately destroyed. If you review pop-sci / marketing materials produced by Pfizer and Moderna and government agencies and non-profits who promoted the shots, the fate of these cells will be glossed over, but that's what happens. This is why it was important that the contents of the jabs stayed in the muscle tissue near the injection site and the process of translating all of the vax mRNA into mod-spike be rapid. If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed and, if enough cells in the wrong place at the wrong time were destroyed this way, bad things could happen. Observing vax mRNA persisting or existing weeks and weeks post-administration is not good for this (and additional) reasons.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Now I'm curious, if you get infected by the virus itself, does the same thing not happen?
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  How do you supposed "normal" vaccines work?
- braingenious 4y ago
  You speak really confidently on this topic, can you share your background with regards to immunology/bioscience?
  - fidgewidge 4y ago
    Everything he's saying is common knowledge to anyone who has researched this topic. Having a background in bioscience would not help and most likely hurt, because people within those fields are highly incentivized to suppress bad news about their prior actions.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      To quote GP > If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed… This is something that you would consider to be common knowledge?
      - fidgewidge 4y ago
        To anyone who has researched this topic, yes, and many other things. How do you think the mRNA vaccines work? If you got interested in vaccines around the middle of 2021 and started finding and subscribing to the right blogs and people, you know a whole lot of things about this topic that other people don't. These sorts of threads are a bit frustrating because it involves watching people catch up to where we were 12 months ago.

mlyle 4y ago

> instead of staying at the injection site. We've known that forever. There's been studies done with luciferase to see where the mRNA triggers protein production in small animals. We know that a big portion of the activity is in the liver, distant from the IM injection site (a lot of the activity is at the site, too). e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ "When mRNA-LNPs were injected intramuscularly and intratracheally, similar to intravenous and intraperitoneal deliveries, a large portion of the luciferase activity was detectable in the liver, demonstrating systemic spread of the nanoparticles."

zpeti 4y ago
Yes, and people like Bret Weinstein say this is a massive problem and why there’s heart inflammation, if the mrna enters heart muscle your immune system might well attack it, the problem is - heart muscle does not get remade.
- RockRobotRock 4y ago
  Bret Weinstein is an obvious grifter
- mlyle 4y ago
  The problem with this is that there's simpler explanations. Myocarditis is more frequent with C19 infection than vaccination, so it seems spike protein circulating is "enough". Also this study didn't find significant uptake of mRNA in the heart (though it did find notable uptake in the lungs).
  - nwienert 4y ago
    The Mycocarditis line is not true - it highly depends on gender and age. Repeating that its more frequent for infection outright is wrong, it is only in certain sub-populations (female, older).
    - mlyle 4y ago