7 ms·

> Are you saying that the same positions would count as "center" in Europe while "left" in the US? Not GP, but yes – that is clearly the case.

istinetz 4y ago
Lmao no. Eastern Europe is definitely more right wing than the US on the social axis, and this is probably also true for westies.
- jibbirish 4y ago
  This heavily depends on which part of policies you take into account. Many European countries are shifting to the right concerning migration. But when looking at the fiscal / economic policies of for example the PVV in the Netherlands (the far-right party of Geert Wilders) you will find that those policies are very comparable to left-wing parties.
- andreiii 4y ago
  that's what most people in Europe refuse to see. is common for even left-wing Europeans to hate on certain ethnicities, on other nationalities, to be very nationalistic in general.
0xblood 4y ago
Can you give me an example of such a position? I would argue that, for example, social programs in Europe are more popular, but still following a left-leaning position that is just more broadly accepted
- fabian2k 4y ago
  Having universal health insurance available for everyone is a consensus opinion in Germany, no party disagrees with that. In the US "socialized medicine" is a controversial topic.
  - andreiii 4y ago
    That's because we (in Europe) didn't know anything else and people are reluctant to change seeing the negative PR coming out of US. I'm pretty sure majority of people in Europe hate how our massive taxation is for the most part wasted.
    - fabian2k 4y ago
      Generalizing over the entirety of Europe is not useful, the countries and political positions are too diverse for that. And at least in Germany I don't see anyone questioning universal healthcare. There are of course discussions on the details, but nobody is trying to abolish it. And while there are inefficiencies, the US health care system is even less efficient. So we would not save any money by making our system worse.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      People really think that most of their taxes are wasted?
  - 0xblood 4y ago
    So a consensus position is by definition center? So (democratic) countries can't lean to either side of the spectrum because by definition their positions are supported by the majority, and thus a center position?
    - fabian2k 4y ago
      I don't mean a majority supports this position, I mean that really nobody opposes it at all. The US Republican position on health care is entirely outside the German political spectrum, it does not exist here in any party that is represented in parliament.
      - 0xblood 4y ago
        Typically, if there is no majority in opposition of a position, it is typically referred to as "consensus". I do not understand your argument. Germany has a left-leaning position on health care, historically introduced and defended by left-aligned parties but generally accepted across the spectrum. Just because the far right does not want to abolish socialized health care does not make it a center position, at least that is the argument I am trying to make
- chronial 4y ago
  I would say of the top of my head: • Employee rights • Health insurance • Militarism ("What is an appropriate amount to spend on military") • Global Warming
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    • Human rights (reproductive rights in particular).
- tinco 4y ago
  Well even if you disregard ideologies, just the legislations that are in place influence what the center of a position could be. For example in my country our right wing government had made good on a right wing promise to increase the maximum highway speed from 120kph to 130kph. Some years later however it turned out that the presence of highways contributed to dangerous levels of nitric oxides (edited from nitrogen) in the air and a judge forced that same administration to reduce the maximum speed from 130kph to 100kph. Now legislation (and reality) has changed a right wing position from being "disregard the environment, prioritise economy and increase the speed" to "disregard health, prioritise economy and increase the speed". The same position was basically transformed into a more extreme position due to the circumstances changing. I imagine that same thing holds for many topics. It sure feels a lot more extreme to advocate gun regulation when doing so in opposition of school shooting victims. I generally support the idea of gun ownership, but the shootings definitely forced me to have a more nuanced opinion that shifted my position from the conservative side to the progressive side.
  - fabian2k 4y ago
    Air is mostly nitrogen, and that isn't dangerous.
    - yourusername 4y ago
      Dutch media is terrible and refuses to name the actual compounds involved (NOx and NH3) because that would require them to distinguish between the different sources of this pollution. So they've just been calling it "nitrogen" and so you get people repeating the assertion that there are dangerous levels of "nitrogen" in the air.
      - tinco 4y ago
        Yeah, I don't know what the proper English name for those compounds is. Is it nitric oxides and ammonia?
TheFragenTaken 4y ago
I agree with this one. From a European standpoint, there is right-center, and more-right in the US.

istinetz 4y ago

Lmao no. Eastern Europe is definitely more right wing than the US on the social axis, and this is probably also true for westies.

jibbirish 4y ago
This heavily depends on which part of policies you take into account. Many European countries are shifting to the right concerning migration. But when looking at the fiscal / economic policies of for example the PVV in the Netherlands (the far-right party of Geert Wilders) you will find that those policies are very comparable to left-wing parties.
andreiii 4y ago
that's what most people in Europe refuse to see. is common for even left-wing Europeans to hate on certain ethnicities, on other nationalities, to be very nationalistic in general.

0xblood 4y ago

Can you give me an example of such a position? I would argue that, for example, social programs in Europe are more popular, but still following a left-leaning position that is just more broadly accepted

fabian2k 4y ago
Having universal health insurance available for everyone is a consensus opinion in Germany, no party disagrees with that. In the US "socialized medicine" is a controversial topic.
- andreiii 4y ago
  That's because we (in Europe) didn't know anything else and people are reluctant to change seeing the negative PR coming out of US. I'm pretty sure majority of people in Europe hate how our massive taxation is for the most part wasted.
  - fabian2k 4y ago
    Generalizing over the entirety of Europe is not useful, the countries and political positions are too diverse for that. And at least in Germany I don't see anyone questioning universal healthcare. There are of course discussions on the details, but nobody is trying to abolish it. And while there are inefficiencies, the US health care system is even less efficient. So we would not save any money by making our system worse.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    People really think that most of their taxes are wasted?
- 0xblood 4y ago
  So a consensus position is by definition center? So (democratic) countries can't lean to either side of the spectrum because by definition their positions are supported by the majority, and thus a center position?
  - fabian2k 4y ago
    I don't mean a majority supports this position, I mean that really nobody opposes it at all. The US Republican position on health care is entirely outside the German political spectrum, it does not exist here in any party that is represented in parliament.
    - 0xblood 4y ago
      Typically, if there is no majority in opposition of a position, it is typically referred to as "consensus". I do not understand your argument. Germany has a left-leaning position on health care, historically introduced and defended by left-aligned parties but generally accepted across the spectrum. Just because the far right does not want to abolish socialized health care does not make it a center position, at least that is the argument I am trying to make
chronial 4y ago
I would say of the top of my head: • Employee rights • Health insurance • Militarism ("What is an appropriate amount to spend on military") • Global Warming
- lostlogin 4y ago
  • Human rights (reproductive rights in particular).
tinco 4y ago
Well even if you disregard ideologies, just the legislations that are in place influence what the center of a position could be. For example in my country our right wing government had made good on a right wing promise to increase the maximum highway speed from 120kph to 130kph. Some years later however it turned out that the presence of highways contributed to dangerous levels of nitric oxides (edited from nitrogen) in the air and a judge forced that same administration to reduce the maximum speed from 130kph to 100kph. Now legislation (and reality) has changed a right wing position from being "disregard the environment, prioritise economy and increase the speed" to "disregard health, prioritise economy and increase the speed". The same position was basically transformed into a more extreme position due to the circumstances changing. I imagine that same thing holds for many topics. It sure feels a lot more extreme to advocate gun regulation when doing so in opposition of school shooting victims. I generally support the idea of gun ownership, but the shootings definitely forced me to have a more nuanced opinion that shifted my position from the conservative side to the progressive side.
- fabian2k 4y ago
  Air is mostly nitrogen, and that isn't dangerous.
  - yourusername 4y ago
    Dutch media is terrible and refuses to name the actual compounds involved (NOx and NH3) because that would require them to distinguish between the different sources of this pollution. So they've just been calling it "nitrogen" and so you get people repeating the assertion that there are dangerous levels of "nitrogen" in the air.
    - tinco 4y ago
      Yeah, I don't know what the proper English name for those compounds is. Is it nitric oxides and ammonia?

TheFragenTaken 4y ago

I agree with this one. From a European standpoint, there is right-center, and more-right in the US.