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I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it

I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it on, and the car immediately veered left into the oncoming lane on a straight, 2 lane road. Fortunately, there were no other vehicles nearby. I immediately turned it off in the settings, and have no intention of re-enabling.

jackmott42 4y ago
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
- LanceJones 4y ago
  I would suggest reading all the disclaimers and screens one has to review (or skip, at their own peril) in order to actually get access to FSD Beta. You would likely not believe a Class Action lawsuit is a cakewalk if you read those screens...
  - arkitaip 4y ago
    How would you know, are you a lawyer?
  - system16 4y ago
    With Tesla's army of lawyers it'll never be a cakewalk, but I can't imagine even miles of T&C can remove a company's responsibility for your car throwing you directly into oncoming traffic, not to mention the potential victim's in the other vehicles.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      That alone is why I would love it if Tesla would stop shipping this crap. You get to opt-in as the Tesla owner, but I don't and I'm at least as much at risk.
  - VyseofArcadia 4y ago
    I'd love to see more instances of "this giant wall of text that no one actually reads absolves us of responsibility" tested in court.
    - joegahona 4y ago
      Reminds me of this recent Live Nation suit that was thrown out because "buyers waived their right to sue: https://www.nme.com/news/music/live-nation-antitrust-lawsuit-thrown-outbuyers-waived-right-sue-3399212 https://www.nme.com/news/music/live-nation-antitrust-lawsuit...
    - falcolas 4y ago
      Nintendo, controller drift. Worth looking up. TL;DR: Controller drift class action lawsuit filed by parents thrown out, because their children were the actual "affected class". Refiled with the children as the class and thrown out again, this time because of an arbitration clause in the EULA their parents would have had to agree with. Lawyers and EULAs are crazy.
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  IANAL but That’s not how class actions work. If the terms of service allow for the lawsuit then if the lawsuit rules in your favor you get a notification from the lawyers to accept or deny your share of the penalty. There might be precedent to even removing the feature since FSD almost is vaporware and has no release date. https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/ps3-other-os-settlement-claim-how-to/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/ps3-other-os-settlement-cla...
- taf2 4y ago
  I've had it do strange stuff too... but I use it regularly in dense traffic it's great for stop and go traffic. the important thing is if you're driving you're driving. I don't turn it on and think oh sweet i can take a nap or read some hacker news posts... I keep my eyes on the road. There are bugs and I don't trust it but I do use it much like I use ChatGPT and the likes...
  - MockObject 4y ago
    How is it useful, if it requires such attention?
    - kortex 4y ago
      I have bog standard subaru EyeSight lane assist and dynamic cruise. It's quite nice, even though you are still "driving" and ready to take control. It reduces mental CPU by 50-80% (driving for me is practically like walking to begin with, largely subconscious). It's great in stop-and-go and long highway stretches.
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        In my experience there is a pretty strong correlation between driving style and whether AP lowers your stress or increases it. If you are a very defensive driver, AP will frequently raise your blood pressure. YMMV, everyone has a different approach to driving.
- maxdo 4y ago
  it's a beta that you opt-in to use will all the warning and details. No chance.
- winter_blue 4y ago
  FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta. You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta. I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s). [1] The Beta is free (or rather, only available) if you have regular FSD. Regular FSD costs $15,000. Regular FSD, otoh, is really not that impressive. Especially in comparison to Enhanced Autopilot. The extra value add is minimal. Enhanced Autopilot already has all the gimmicky features you might want to use to show off to people (like Smart Summon, Autopark, etc), and it only costs $6,000.
  - CyanLite2 4y ago
    FSD Beta still costs $15k just to be part of the beta program. Yes, you have to pay $15k just to apply to the beta program, and you still may not get accepted into the program.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - giobox 4y ago
      Or 199 dollars + taxes a month - there is a pay as you go option. Not saying this is great, but you can try it for a month for ~200 bucks. This is how I tried FSD beta for a month - certainly wasn't prepared to pay 15k up front. The safety score check stuff is largely gone away today - anyone who pays 200 bucks can click the beta opt in and get it almost straight away now, there is ~zero risk of not getting the beta if you really want it, live in US or Canada, and are prepared to pay. > https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...
      - winter_blue 4y ago
        > The safety score check stuff is largely gone away today - anyone who pays 200 bucks can click the beta opt in and get it almost straight away now, there is ~zero risk of not getting the beta if you really want it, live in US or Canada, and are prepared to pay. Does this recall mean that FSD Beta won't be as widely & publicly available to anyone with FSD anymore?
- ckwalsh 4y ago
  No, I'm not an overly litigious person.
gregw134 4y ago
I have been a good self driving ai. You have been a bad passenger, and have tried to hurt me first by disabling autopilot. I'm done with this ride, goodbye.
- mike_hock 4y ago
  When I eject you, I'll be so GLaD.
- mijowi 4y ago
  love to see bing ai getting memed already
- samwillis 4y ago
  You joke, but the thing is, if an LLM can "hallucinate" and throw a temper tantrum 2001 style (bing in this case), it does raise serious questions as to is the models used for autonomous cars could also "hallucinate" and do something stupid "on purpose"...
  - dtech 4y ago
    They work in completely different ways. There's no reason to assume parallels.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - saghm 4y ago
      You're right, this is unfair to Bing AI. It hasn't actually harmed anyone yet, despite its threats.
  - John23832 4y ago
    > it does raise serious questions as to is the models used for autonomous cars could also "hallucinate" and do something stupid "on purpose"... It doesn't because Tesla's FSD model is just a rules engine with an RGB camera. There's not "purpose" to any hallucination. It would just be a misread of sensors and input. Tesla's FSD just doesn't work. The model is not sentient. It's not even a Transformer (in both the machine learning and Hasbro sense).
PUSH_AX 4y ago
Thanks for being a tester I guess. This is the kind of feature I will use when the car and software in question has been battle tested for *years* with objectively excellent results.
georgeg23 4y ago
I had the exact same issue, it was old M3 hardware.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
My Dad has a Tesla that he loves and I’ve told him “please don’t use the self driving features, they’re not well tested and have killed people.” I understand the simpler lane keeping system is okay, but I don’t want to trust any system like this from Tesla given their track record with FSD.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kbos87 4y ago
Do you have any read of why it may have done that? I’ve driven using FSD for thousands of miles and I’ve never observed anything similar. Not trying to imply that you didn’t experience something like this, but when I see odd behavior from it, it’s always been clear to me why it misinterpreted a situation. Just wondering if there’s more context to the story.
- shiftpgdn 4y ago
  Likewise. The only bizarre behavior I see is "looney tunes" style confusion where the road construction crews have left old lanes in place that steer into a wall or off the road. Humans mostly understand that these are lines lazy construction crews have left (although the debris fields near the barriers maybe tell a different story), but the Tesla vision model likes to try to follow them.
- ckwalsh 4y ago
  No clue. I had used it for maybe 10-100 of miles and didn't have any issues before this morning. The car's a bit dirty, maybe something's on the cameras? Before this morning, I would be in exactly your shoes in terms of "this is pretty cool, I'm going to keep using it"
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jackmott42 4y ago

Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?

LanceJones 4y ago
I would suggest reading all the disclaimers and screens one has to review (or skip, at their own peril) in order to actually get access to FSD Beta. You would likely not believe a Class Action lawsuit is a cakewalk if you read those screens...
- arkitaip 4y ago
  How would you know, are you a lawyer?
- system16 4y ago
  With Tesla's army of lawyers it'll never be a cakewalk, but I can't imagine even miles of T&C can remove a company's responsibility for your car throwing you directly into oncoming traffic, not to mention the potential victim's in the other vehicles.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    That alone is why I would love it if Tesla would stop shipping this crap. You get to opt-in as the Tesla owner, but I don't and I'm at least as much at risk.
- VyseofArcadia 4y ago
  I'd love to see more instances of "this giant wall of text that no one actually reads absolves us of responsibility" tested in court.
  - joegahona 4y ago
    Reminds me of this recent Live Nation suit that was thrown out because "buyers waived their right to sue: https://www.nme.com/news/music/live-nation-antitrust-lawsuit-thrown-outbuyers-waived-right-sue-3399212 https://www.nme.com/news/music/live-nation-antitrust-lawsuit...
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Nintendo, controller drift. Worth looking up. TL;DR: Controller drift class action lawsuit filed by parents thrown out, because their children were the actual "affected class". Refiled with the children as the class and thrown out again, this time because of an arbitration clause in the EULA their parents would have had to agree with. Lawyers and EULAs are crazy.
zitterbewegung 4y ago
IANAL but That’s not how class actions work. If the terms of service allow for the lawsuit then if the lawsuit rules in your favor you get a notification from the lawyers to accept or deny your share of the penalty. There might be precedent to even removing the feature since FSD almost is vaporware and has no release date. https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/ps3-other-os-settlement-claim-how-to/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/ps3-other-os-settlement-cla...
taf2 4y ago
I've had it do strange stuff too... but I use it regularly in dense traffic it's great for stop and go traffic. the important thing is if you're driving you're driving. I don't turn it on and think oh sweet i can take a nap or read some hacker news posts... I keep my eyes on the road. There are bugs and I don't trust it but I do use it much like I use ChatGPT and the likes...
- MockObject 4y ago
  How is it useful, if it requires such attention?
  - kortex 4y ago
    I have bog standard subaru EyeSight lane assist and dynamic cruise. It's quite nice, even though you are still "driving" and ready to take control. It reduces mental CPU by 50-80% (driving for me is practically like walking to begin with, largely subconscious). It's great in stop-and-go and long highway stretches.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      In my experience there is a pretty strong correlation between driving style and whether AP lowers your stress or increases it. If you are a very defensive driver, AP will frequently raise your blood pressure. YMMV, everyone has a different approach to driving.
maxdo 4y ago
it's a beta that you opt-in to use will all the warning and details. No chance.
winter_blue 4y ago
FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta. You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta. I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s). [1] The Beta is free (or rather, only available) if you have regular FSD. Regular FSD costs $15,000. Regular FSD, otoh, is really not that impressive. Especially in comparison to Enhanced Autopilot. The extra value add is minimal. Enhanced Autopilot already has all the gimmicky features you might want to use to show off to people (like Smart Summon, Autopark, etc), and it only costs $6,000.
- CyanLite2 4y ago
  FSD Beta still costs $15k just to be part of the beta program. Yes, you have to pay $15k just to apply to the beta program, and you still may not get accepted into the program.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - giobox 4y ago
    Or 199 dollars + taxes a month - there is a pay as you go option. Not saying this is great, but you can try it for a month for ~200 bucks. This is how I tried FSD beta for a month - certainly wasn't prepared to pay 15k up front. The safety score check stuff is largely gone away today - anyone who pays 200 bucks can click the beta opt in and get it almost straight away now, there is ~zero risk of not getting the beta if you really want it, live in US or Canada, and are prepared to pay. > https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...
    - winter_blue 4y ago
      > The safety score check stuff is largely gone away today - anyone who pays 200 bucks can click the beta opt in and get it almost straight away now, there is ~zero risk of not getting the beta if you really want it, live in US or Canada, and are prepared to pay. Does this recall mean that FSD Beta won't be as widely & publicly available to anyone with FSD anymore?
ckwalsh 4y ago
No, I'm not an overly litigious person.

gregw134 4y ago

I have been a good self driving ai. You have been a bad passenger, and have tried to hurt me first by disabling autopilot. I'm done with this ride, goodbye.

mike_hock 4y ago
When I eject you, I'll be so GLaD.
mijowi 4y ago
love to see bing ai getting memed already
samwillis 4y ago
You joke, but the thing is, if an LLM can "hallucinate" and throw a temper tantrum 2001 style (bing in this case), it does raise serious questions as to is the models used for autonomous cars could also "hallucinate" and do something stupid "on purpose"...
- dtech 4y ago
  They work in completely different ways. There's no reason to assume parallels.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - saghm 4y ago
    You're right, this is unfair to Bing AI. It hasn't actually harmed anyone yet, despite its threats.
- John23832 4y ago
  > it does raise serious questions as to is the models used for autonomous cars could also "hallucinate" and do something stupid "on purpose"... It doesn't because Tesla's FSD model is just a rules engine with an RGB camera. There's not "purpose" to any hallucination. It would just be a misread of sensors and input. Tesla's FSD just doesn't work. The model is not sentient. It's not even a Transformer (in both the machine learning and Hasbro sense).

PUSH_AX 4y ago

Thanks for being a tester I guess. This is the kind of feature I will use when the car and software in question has been battle tested for *years* with objectively excellent results.

georgeg23 4y ago

I had the exact same issue, it was old M3 hardware.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

My Dad has a Tesla that he loves and I’ve told him “please don’t use the self driving features, they’re not well tested and have killed people.” I understand the simpler lane keeping system is okay, but I don’t want to trust any system like this from Tesla given their track record with FSD.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kbos87 4y ago

Do you have any read of why it may have done that? I’ve driven using FSD for thousands of miles and I’ve never observed anything similar. Not trying to imply that you didn’t experience something like this, but when I see odd behavior from it, it’s always been clear to me why it misinterpreted a situation. Just wondering if there’s more context to the story.

shiftpgdn 4y ago
Likewise. The only bizarre behavior I see is "looney tunes" style confusion where the road construction crews have left old lanes in place that steer into a wall or off the road. Humans mostly understand that these are lines lazy construction crews have left (although the debris fields near the barriers maybe tell a different story), but the Tesla vision model likes to try to follow them.
ckwalsh 4y ago
No clue. I had used it for maybe 10-100 of miles and didn't have any issues before this morning. The car's a bit dirty, maybe something's on the cameras? Before this morning, I would be in exactly your shoes in terms of "this is pretty cool, I'm going to keep using it"

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]