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In all except rural Europe which will likely hurt tremendously because of this, most people likely will not care too much. Unlike America a car is not a require

In all except rural Europe which will likely hurt tremendously because of this, most people likely will not care too much. Unlike America a car is not a requirement in most of Europe due to public transportation being allowed to develop instead of it being neutered and made just good enough to exist.

rootusrootus 4y ago
The only thing holding back public transportation in most of the US is lack of sufficient tax base. Recall that the UK is smaller than Oregon and has 15x the taxpayers. Even so, having visited areas of the UK outside London, there are plenty of spots with decidedly mediocre public transit availability.
- henriquez 4y ago
  But the UK is no longer part of EU Europe is pretty damn big and train rides are expensive.
_hypx 4y ago
Millions of people in Europe don’t have garages or easy access to charging stations. This policy is basically impossible in the near-term. The bet is that somehow in 12 years all of this gets solved. There is a real chance that ends up being the next biodiesel mandate and fails.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  ban on "new sales", not on "existing cars" so people will still be able to use their current one, and replace them with Electric or Hydrogen when it's time to replace their car they'll probably then ban petrol/diesel from big cities, so they encourage people to upgrade
  - _hypx 4y ago
    In that scenario people will just keep their old cars for far longer than what the planners are imagining. Like Cuba which still operates cars from 60 years ago. The danger is then you have a society dominated by very outdated cars and a greatly reduced industrial base.
    - Kukumber 4y ago
      Cuba has old cars because of US sanctions that killed their economy and couldn't import anything Here it's different, purchasers have still access to cars, so when they need to change, they can change, and what's gonna be available is EVs, by the time they upgrade, infrastructure will be much different than what it is today Doing it gradually is better, gives time to strengthen the grid network, gives enough time for innovations to come into the market, so people don't produce much tech junk and a recycling industry can emerge
      - _hypx 4y ago
        The infrastructure may never materialize. Not to mention that the amount of EVs may never materialize, as they are hugely dependent on raw materials and can be subjected to OPEC-like embargos. It could easy turn into a vast market of used cars and very few new ones.
        mattashii 4y ago
        The infrastructure is already materializing. >50% of the 119k public charge points in NL were installed within the past 2 years, providing their services to 328k BEVs. And if you don't ever want to wait for a charge, then you can often use public transit, or ride a bike.
        _hypx 4y ago
        You will need millions, and that includes a vast number of fast chargers plus grid upgrades.
        4y ago
988747 4y ago
Actually, rural Europe is the place that will benefit from it: EU has been subsidizing photovoltaic installations on single family homes for like a decade now, and switching to EV makes most sense to people that can easily produce their own electricity. It's people in cities that will be forced to compete for limited charging stations that will suffer.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
This is not quite correct. A car is very much a requirement for a lot of people. The structure of society is build around cars. This begins if people need to care about family members living 20-30km away. This become an immense logistical challenge without a car. People would need to reduce their working times and still would suffer an immense hit to their free time since any other transport option needs twice the time at least. People say public transport is widely spread in Europe, but that is just not true. The cities are decent, but otherwise using public transportation is a huge time sink. Some dream to reduce individual traffic down to 10-20%, but I believe this is a naive pipe dream and will be a huge hit to life quality for the majority. We also have no infrastructure for EV at all. Most people don't have a garage to even be able to get a dedicated charging station. Public infrastructure would cost billions and energy demand is also a problem... If EVs cannot be produced in a large number for whatever reason, resources or infrastructure problems or whatever, car manufacturers will demand billions upon billions from the Union because it forced them to switch. This is again a bad policy. If EVs are an alternative and affordable, they will remove combustion cars from the streets without any ban.
pjmlp 4y ago
In many European cities not everyone is priviledged to live near a bus stop or subway line, and even so, not all lines have a connection every 10 minutes.

rootusrootus 4y ago

The only thing holding back public transportation in most of the US is lack of sufficient tax base. Recall that the UK is smaller than Oregon and has 15x the taxpayers. Even so, having visited areas of the UK outside London, there are plenty of spots with decidedly mediocre public transit availability.

henriquez 4y ago
But the UK is no longer part of EU Europe is pretty damn big and train rides are expensive.

_hypx 4y ago

Millions of people in Europe don’t have garages or easy access to charging stations. This policy is basically impossible in the near-term. The bet is that somehow in 12 years all of this gets solved. There is a real chance that ends up being the next biodiesel mandate and fails.

Kukumber 4y ago
ban on "new sales", not on "existing cars" so people will still be able to use their current one, and replace them with Electric or Hydrogen when it's time to replace their car they'll probably then ban petrol/diesel from big cities, so they encourage people to upgrade
- _hypx 4y ago
  In that scenario people will just keep their old cars for far longer than what the planners are imagining. Like Cuba which still operates cars from 60 years ago. The danger is then you have a society dominated by very outdated cars and a greatly reduced industrial base.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    Cuba has old cars because of US sanctions that killed their economy and couldn't import anything Here it's different, purchasers have still access to cars, so when they need to change, they can change, and what's gonna be available is EVs, by the time they upgrade, infrastructure will be much different than what it is today Doing it gradually is better, gives time to strengthen the grid network, gives enough time for innovations to come into the market, so people don't produce much tech junk and a recycling industry can emerge
    - _hypx 4y ago
      The infrastructure may never materialize. Not to mention that the amount of EVs may never materialize, as they are hugely dependent on raw materials and can be subjected to OPEC-like embargos. It could easy turn into a vast market of used cars and very few new ones.
      - mattashii 4y ago
        The infrastructure is already materializing. >50% of the 119k public charge points in NL were installed within the past 2 years, providing their services to 328k BEVs. And if you don't ever want to wait for a charge, then you can often use public transit, or ride a bike.
        _hypx 4y ago
        You will need millions, and that includes a vast number of fast chargers plus grid upgrades.
        4y ago

988747 4y ago

Actually, rural Europe is the place that will benefit from it: EU has been subsidizing photovoltaic installations on single family homes for like a decade now, and switching to EV makes most sense to people that can easily produce their own electricity. It's people in cities that will be forced to compete for limited charging stations that will suffer.

raxxorraxor 4y ago

This is not quite correct. A car is very much a requirement for a lot of people. The structure of society is build around cars. This begins if people need to care about family members living 20-30km away. This become an immense logistical challenge without a car. People would need to reduce their working times and still would suffer an immense hit to their free time since any other transport option needs twice the time at least. People say public transport is widely spread in Europe, but that is just not true. The cities are decent, but otherwise using public transportation is a huge time sink. Some dream to reduce individual traffic down to 10-20%, but I believe this is a naive pipe dream and will be a huge hit to life quality for the majority. We also have no infrastructure for EV at all. Most people don't have a garage to even be able to get a dedicated charging station. Public infrastructure would cost billions and energy demand is also a problem... If EVs cannot be produced in a large number for whatever reason, resources or infrastructure problems or whatever, car manufacturers will demand billions upon billions from the Union because it forced them to switch. This is again a bad policy. If EVs are an alternative and affordable, they will remove combustion cars from the streets without any ban.

pjmlp 4y ago

In many European cities not everyone is priviledged to live near a bus stop or subway line, and even so, not all lines have a connection every 10 minutes.