17 ms·

EV battery has 50% more energy density than trad li-ion, 10-minute charge

19 points by ymerej 4y ago

slaw 4y ago
Not even one picture of that battery.
ecpottinger 4y ago
If I can't buy it, then it is worthless garbage. Tell me where I can buy the battery or a car that uses it, otherwise it is just a lot of talk to try and raise the price of a stock.
AgentK20 4y ago
Always happy to see further development in the field of battery chemistry, but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce. More investment and breakthroughs are good, and they push the industry forward, but keep in mind that most people (myself included) would rather a cheaper EV that takes twice as long to charge than vice versa (assuming a base capacity that is enough for all but roadtrips). The article does point out though that short-duration battery-powered flights may be a perfect application for a more pricey but higher-density battery.
- Hermitian909 4y ago
  > but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce This is a good instinct but, FWIW, I'm think there's a good chance we're going to see scale-up costs drop by about an order of magnitude over the next 5 years via fairly straightforward use of ML to reduce on scaleup test iterations. (For readers without context: to scale up battery production you start by making a few grams of materials in a lab, then a few kilograms, then a few tons. At each step there are failures and you have to iterate on production parameters, testing can take a long time as well. Sometimes the whole effort fails). At my last job we worked on this and saw good results, but productionizing them was a ways off.
MarkusWandel 4y ago
Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probably more because charge current isn't uniform over the charge cycle. Half a megawatt per charger bay. The electrical infrastructure for mass deployment of this sort of thing will really be interesting.
- _hypx 4y ago
  Which is why hydrogen cars need to be taken seriously. Not everyone is going to have access to a private charger, nor is it realistic to put up 0.5 MW chargers everywhere. There are millions of people that are better served by a car powered by fuel.
  - Rygian 4y ago
    I would argue that whatever investment is needed for beefier EV charging is always going to be orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler, not to mention efficient, than the most basic network of hydrogen pump stations. This is just a gut feeling.
    - _hypx 4y ago
      You'd be wrong. A hydrogen infrastructure would have the same footprint as gasoline/diesel. The stations are already there, they just need to be converted. Hydrogen distribution will mostly reuse natural gas infrastructure. On the other hand, a charging network will means a drastic expansion of power infrastructure and many new charging stations on new land. The efficiency of electricity is also more hype than reality. If it is coming from fossil fuel power plants, it is not notably more efficient nor green. If it is from renewable energy, then you need to solve the problem of energy storage, which ironically is most easily solved via hydrogen. Nevermind the fact that you have to deal with the upfront energy needed for battery production, undermining the argument in a big way. And of course, nothing is more efficient than not driving at all. Mass transit and walkable neighborhoods should be the main goal of green transportation. Cars are mostly a distraction and should not be emphasized. We only tolerate them because not every transportation problem can be solved in that way. They are the fallback solution. As a fallback solution, hydrogen cars make a lot of sense, especially for those who can't justify an EV. Certainly more sensible than demanding only EVs for all cars.

19 points by ymerej 4y ago

slaw 4y ago

Not even one picture of that battery.

If I can't buy it, then it is worthless garbage. Tell me where I can buy the battery or a car that uses it, otherwise it is just a lot of talk to try and raise the price of a stock.

AgentK20 4y ago

Always happy to see further development in the field of battery chemistry, but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce. More investment and breakthroughs are good, and they push the industry forward, but keep in mind that most people (myself included) would rather a cheaper EV that takes twice as long to charge than vice versa (assuming a base capacity that is enough for all but roadtrips). The article does point out though that short-duration battery-powered flights may be a perfect application for a more pricey but higher-density battery.

Hermitian909 4y ago
> but I temper my expectations with the realities of both cost and difficulty to mass produce This is a good instinct but, FWIW, I'm think there's a good chance we're going to see scale-up costs drop by about an order of magnitude over the next 5 years via fairly straightforward use of ML to reduce on scaleup test iterations. (For readers without context: to scale up battery production you start by making a few grams of materials in a lab, then a few kilograms, then a few tons. At each step there are failures and you have to iterate on production parameters, testing can take a long time as well. Sometimes the whole effort fails). At my last job we worked on this and saw good results, but productionizing them was a ways off.

MarkusWandel 4y ago

Even assuming that this can be turned into practical product, 10 minute charge? With a typical EV battery on the order of 80KWh? That's 480KW charging, probably more because charge current isn't uniform over the charge cycle. Half a megawatt per charger bay. The electrical infrastructure for mass deployment of this sort of thing will really be interesting.

_hypx 4y ago
Which is why hydrogen cars need to be taken seriously. Not everyone is going to have access to a private charger, nor is it realistic to put up 0.5 MW chargers everywhere. There are millions of people that are better served by a car powered by fuel.
- Rygian 4y ago
  I would argue that whatever investment is needed for beefier EV charging is always going to be orders of magnitude cheaper and simpler, not to mention efficient, than the most basic network of hydrogen pump stations. This is just a gut feeling.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    You'd be wrong. A hydrogen infrastructure would have the same footprint as gasoline/diesel. The stations are already there, they just need to be converted. Hydrogen distribution will mostly reuse natural gas infrastructure. On the other hand, a charging network will means a drastic expansion of power infrastructure and many new charging stations on new land. The efficiency of electricity is also more hype than reality. If it is coming from fossil fuel power plants, it is not notably more efficient nor green. If it is from renewable energy, then you need to solve the problem of energy storage, which ironically is most easily solved via hydrogen. Nevermind the fact that you have to deal with the upfront energy needed for battery production, undermining the argument in a big way. And of course, nothing is more efficient than not driving at all. Mass transit and walkable neighborhoods should be the main goal of green transportation. Cars are mostly a distraction and should not be emphasized. We only tolerate them because not every transportation problem can be solved in that way. They are the fallback solution. As a fallback solution, hydrogen cars make a lot of sense, especially for those who can't justify an EV. Certainly more sensible than demanding only EVs for all cars.