5 ms·

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the f

> burdening 8 billion law-abiding Citizens with impossibly complex and arduous KYC/AML requirements TFA notes that "This will affect the typical user of the financial system precisely zero times during their lives." It is very much not a complex and arduous situation in most instances, only in very few edge cases. (Which patio11 wants us to pay closer attention to.) I had occasion to unexpectedly transfer $10k over ACH recently, and, while a few minutes on the phone with my bank confirming things was slightly annoying, I would describe it as neither complex nor arduous. I am confident that it did not trigger a CTR or SAR, given it was not a cash transaction, and I was happy to answer a few questions.

pjkundert 4y ago
Ihre Papeire bitte. Stop And Frisk. Nobody without something to hide should want privacy/encryption. Forcing 8 Billion people to KYC/AML before buying a coffee or helping a relative isn't too much to ask. Amirite? /s
- JusticeJuice 4y ago
  Funniest AML thing I ever did. Went to open a new account in the app, it's like sorry you haven't verified your identity can't do it through the app. Okay. Walk into a branch, ask to make a new account. They're like nah, you need to come back with proof of where you live before we can verify your identity. I'm literally standing in front of you. With ID. I already have 3 accounts, what's a 4th?
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    They would need a recent proof of address to know where you live. I know, it is stupid and there are so many ways to fake this, but a bank cant possibly gibe a loan to someone without knowing where they live. Else kim jong il could just walk in with his id etcetc.
exbanker 4y ago
This is just factually untrue. AML policies unjustly affect millions of Americans. At US Bank, you can’t deposit cash without an ID which is standard post 2018 or so. Yet go to a US Bank in a low income area, deposit $100 in a family member’s account and they will ask for ID, social security number and your job. US Bank has been involved in multiple money laundering scandals leading to deferred criminal prosecution. Many friends have times where they can’t withdraw their own cash, have had accounts closed, have been falsely reported for fraud without any recourse etc etc. Also because financial fraud and identity theft is rarely prosecuted, regular Americans are bombarded with friction and hassle to transact. People outside normal banking use Chime or prepaid bank cards, which promptly get banned from being used in a wide variety of businesses. AML policies and the Bank Secrecy Act is a violation of the 4th Amendment. The BSA (a misnomer) has expanded in scope since the 70s and as money has inflated. It’s went from an adjusted $70,000+ to $600 today (or $85 in 1970s dollars). And it seems the Supreme Court is going to act on the BSA sometime in the next year. It is a crime against the individual, a violation of civil rights and indefensible. It is purely motivated by tax enforcement and controlling the population. It does not prevent or identify crime. There is an estimated trillion+ of trade based money laundering every year.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  I'm always gobsmacked at the level of ... jawdropping "Let them eat cake!" self-delusion displayed by some wealthy people. "This hasn't affected me, so it mustn't affect anyone!" The grinding day-to-day slogging, through the mud of irrelevant and useless regulatory burden experienced by the "lesser" classes of civilization (and anyone actually trying to run a small business) is just astonishing. Basically, many people just "stop". They can't navigate it, and know they'll never defeat it. So they just cease to try.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    I thought their response was sarcasm. Surely no one would seriously think it is reasonable to be questioned over the phone over $10k which is what, enough to cover a month of expenses for an upper middle class family in Manhattan or San Francisco? As for a SAR, lmao. It's illegal for them to tell you if you triggered it, how on earth would you know?

pjkundert 4y ago

Ihre Papeire bitte. Stop And Frisk. Nobody without something to hide should want privacy/encryption. Forcing 8 Billion people to KYC/AML before buying a coffee or helping a relative isn't too much to ask. Amirite? /s

JusticeJuice 4y ago
Funniest AML thing I ever did. Went to open a new account in the app, it's like sorry you haven't verified your identity can't do it through the app. Okay. Walk into a branch, ask to make a new account. They're like nah, you need to come back with proof of where you live before we can verify your identity. I'm literally standing in front of you. With ID. I already have 3 accounts, what's a 4th?
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  They would need a recent proof of address to know where you live. I know, it is stupid and there are so many ways to fake this, but a bank cant possibly gibe a loan to someone without knowing where they live. Else kim jong il could just walk in with his id etcetc.

exbanker 4y ago

This is just factually untrue. AML policies unjustly affect millions of Americans. At US Bank, you can’t deposit cash without an ID which is standard post 2018 or so. Yet go to a US Bank in a low income area, deposit $100 in a family member’s account and they will ask for ID, social security number and your job. US Bank has been involved in multiple money laundering scandals leading to deferred criminal prosecution. Many friends have times where they can’t withdraw their own cash, have had accounts closed, have been falsely reported for fraud without any recourse etc etc. Also because financial fraud and identity theft is rarely prosecuted, regular Americans are bombarded with friction and hassle to transact. People outside normal banking use Chime or prepaid bank cards, which promptly get banned from being used in a wide variety of businesses. AML policies and the Bank Secrecy Act is a violation of the 4th Amendment. The BSA (a misnomer) has expanded in scope since the 70s and as money has inflated. It’s went from an adjusted $70,000+ to $600 today (or $85 in 1970s dollars). And it seems the Supreme Court is going to act on the BSA sometime in the next year. It is a crime against the individual, a violation of civil rights and indefensible. It is purely motivated by tax enforcement and controlling the population. It does not prevent or identify crime. There is an estimated trillion+ of trade based money laundering every year.

pjkundert 4y ago
I'm always gobsmacked at the level of ... jawdropping "Let them eat cake!" self-delusion displayed by some wealthy people. "This hasn't affected me, so it mustn't affect anyone!" The grinding day-to-day slogging, through the mud of irrelevant and useless regulatory burden experienced by the "lesser" classes of civilization (and anyone actually trying to run a small business) is just astonishing. Basically, many people just "stop". They can't navigate it, and know they'll never defeat it. So they just cease to try.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I thought their response was sarcasm. Surely no one would seriously think it is reasonable to be questioned over the phone over $10k which is what, enough to cover a month of expenses for an upper middle class family in Manhattan or San Francisco? As for a SAR, lmao. It's illegal for them to tell you if you triggered it, how on earth would you know?