8 ms·

I wouldn’t call it a new thing. We began without virtual DOM and then Facebook sold us the vDOM as the ultimate way to go. Which svelte clearly shows, by removi

I wouldn’t call it a new thing. We began without virtual DOM and then Facebook sold us the vDOM as the ultimate way to go. Which svelte clearly shows, by removing the unnecessary layer for the vdom it’s much faster and is still reactive.

nailer 4y ago
Solid too. But yes Svelte seems to have been the current thing for a few years now.
- ergo14 4y ago
  Lit also does fine without VDOM and has good performance characteristics.
  - djbusby 4y ago
    RiotJS as well.
szastamasta 4y ago
They did this while introducing a lot of compiler magic and automatic dependency discovery that not always works. I’m not sure I’m sold on it. Code you write is not code you execute.
romualdr 4y ago
You're correct, it's not new. Still, the question remains, what's the improvement over Svelte or SolidJS which doesn't use VDOM as well ?
richeyryan 4y ago
Or there is Inferno which is VDOM based and outperforms Svelte on most benchmarks. The whole narrative of "VDOM is pure overhead" doesn't hold out in practice, and I suspect really just an excuse to attack React and promote Svelte. https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table_chrome_110.0.5481.77.html#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 https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table...
- vlovich123 4y ago
  Outperforms? Solid, svelte and inferno all look to have very similar numbers in that table unless I’m terribly misreading it. So similar, that I think which way it goes is possibly more dependent on your benchmark environment than any difference between them.
- antifa 4y ago
  According to that, solid won in the majority of metrics. And what about build size?
  - aquaductape 4y ago
    Svelte has largest component size compared to other frameworks such as Vue, React and Solid, so it quickly grows, even on a small webapp. Because Inferno is VDOM, I'm assuming it has a smaller component size compared to Solid.

nailer 4y ago

Solid too. But yes Svelte seems to have been the current thing for a few years now.

ergo14 4y ago
Lit also does fine without VDOM and has good performance characteristics.
- djbusby 4y ago
  RiotJS as well.

szastamasta 4y ago

They did this while introducing a lot of compiler magic and automatic dependency discovery that not always works. I’m not sure I’m sold on it. Code you write is not code you execute.

romualdr 4y ago

You're correct, it's not new. Still, the question remains, what's the improvement over Svelte or SolidJS which doesn't use VDOM as well ?

richeyryan 4y ago

Or there is Inferno which is VDOM based and outperforms Svelte on most benchmarks. The whole narrative of "VDOM is pure overhead" doesn't hold out in practice, and I suspect really just an excuse to attack React and promote Svelte. https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table_chrome_110.0.5481.77.html#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 https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/2023/table...

vlovich123 4y ago
Outperforms? Solid, svelte and inferno all look to have very similar numbers in that table unless I’m terribly misreading it. So similar, that I think which way it goes is possibly more dependent on your benchmark environment than any difference between them.
antifa 4y ago
According to that, solid won in the majority of metrics. And what about build size?
- aquaductape 4y ago
  Svelte has largest component size compared to other frameworks such as Vue, React and Solid, so it quickly grows, even on a small webapp. Because Inferno is VDOM, I'm assuming it has a smaller component size compared to Solid.