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Have you read Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World book from 1996? Because this kind of crap always turns out to be garbage. We live on a rock circling a star. The

Have you read Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World book from 1996? Because this kind of crap always turns out to be garbage. We live on a rock circling a star. The only thing that makes the world more interesting than it really is is our brains that love to make crap up. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.™

dtx1 4y ago
When the US Government tells the world that North Korea has exploded a nuclear weapon than i can neither directly measure that myself nor do I have access to the data where and how the US Government knows that happens. Yet we all collectively believe that to be true. The Nimitz incident falls under the same category. I don't know what that was but the "debunking" by Mick West simply ignores most of the little evidence we have. And so, at least 3 People (2 Pilots, 1 Radar Operator) have come forward and told a consistent story of what happened. No one has come forward and claimed they were lying (which would be the most likely explanation). The US Government is spending at least a few bucks investigating this as a result and changes their policies on reporting UFOs. During his presidency Obama himself gathered thousands of documents on Ufos[0] and told us straight up there's stuff out there we can't explain[1]. Is it possible that is all explainable? Sure, for all I know everyone is lying and North Korea doesn't have Nukes. Is it possible that we stumbled upon something extraordinary? Yes. My Argument is simply: Mick Wests "explanations" ignore a lot of the facts out there to give an answer. Any answer. And that answer will do for the people that google $topic+debunk and stop thinking there. The fact that his explanations require you to ignore evidence, believe in really, really weird coincidences and believe that all our modern sensors on f16s and radar boats fail to account for our own planes and pilots can't distinguish our own planes from flying container sized tictacs that they stare at from multiple angles for 5 minutes on a clear day. Even if there is a very ordinary explanation for what happened, Mick West doesn't have it but his bad explanation is enough for those that don't really care and just want to reflexively debunk anything that doesn't fit their world view. If you really care, you can watch him talk with alex dietrich one of the pilots[2]. She explains to him quite well that his "explanations" for what they saw are complete nonesense. But that doesn't get you the headlines as the great debunker. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmnqd/obamas-presidential-library-has-thousands-of-files-on-ufos https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmnqd/obamas-presidential-l... [1] https://youtu.be/u1hNYs55sqs?t=5 https://youtu.be/u1hNYs55sqs?t=5 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwZU6RiTEAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwZU6RiTEAw
- defrost 4y ago
  I wouldn't trust the US Govt to lie straight in bed. This is why we have multiple confirmations and public databases: The Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO) was set up in 1996 with its headquarters in Vienna, Austria. It is an interim organization tasked with building up the verification regime of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty (CTBT) in preparation for the Treaty's entry into force, as well as promoting the Treaty's universality. All six nuclear tests by North Korea were clearly detected by Australia’s IMS seismic stations,” Zerbo said. ~ https://www.ctbto.org/resources/for-the-media/press-releases/australia-completes-its-monitoring-stations-global-network https://www.ctbto.org/resources/for-the-media/press-releases... https://www.ga.gov.au/education/classroom-resources/hazards/natural-hazards/nuclear-monitoring https://www.ga.gov.au/education/classroom-resources/hazards/...
  - dtx1 4y ago
    Making my point for me, all that Data could be trivially faked, in 5 years probably by telling chatGPT10.3 "Make a website proving that North Korea exploded nukes" and I have 0 way to verify any of this. Yet I believe that those Sensors Measured what they did and north korea did in fact explode a few nukes.
    - defrost 4y ago
      How would chatGPT "trivially fake" paper readouts digitised and signed in real time from multiple sensor sites controlled by multiple independent countries and legal jurisdictions? > and I have 0 way to verify any of this. That would be because you haven't joined any geophysical data organisations .. and that'd be on you.
      - dTal 4y ago
        I notice "argument from personal ignorance" is common in "believer" circles (not just of aliens, but of all kinds of conspiracy theories). If you happen to be well educated enough to provide a detailed explanation of why a particular thing they've said doesn't hold water, it's frustratingly common for them to fall back on "well I'm not an expert, I don't know all the details, I'm just asking questions." Somehow it never occurs to them not to make wild assertions when they "don't know all the details".

dtx1 4y ago

When the US Government tells the world that North Korea has exploded a nuclear weapon than i can neither directly measure that myself nor do I have access to the data where and how the US Government knows that happens. Yet we all collectively believe that to be true. The Nimitz incident falls under the same category. I don't know what that was but the "debunking" by Mick West simply ignores most of the little evidence we have. And so, at least 3 People (2 Pilots, 1 Radar Operator) have come forward and told a consistent story of what happened. No one has come forward and claimed they were lying (which would be the most likely explanation). The US Government is spending at least a few bucks investigating this as a result and changes their policies on reporting UFOs. During his presidency Obama himself gathered thousands of documents on Ufos[0] and told us straight up there's stuff out there we can't explain[1]. Is it possible that is all explainable? Sure, for all I know everyone is lying and North Korea doesn't have Nukes. Is it possible that we stumbled upon something extraordinary? Yes. My Argument is simply: Mick Wests "explanations" ignore a lot of the facts out there to give an answer. Any answer. And that answer will do for the people that google $topic+debunk and stop thinking there. The fact that his explanations require you to ignore evidence, believe in really, really weird coincidences and believe that all our modern sensors on f16s and radar boats fail to account for our own planes and pilots can't distinguish our own planes from flying container sized tictacs that they stare at from multiple angles for 5 minutes on a clear day. Even if there is a very ordinary explanation for what happened, Mick West doesn't have it but his bad explanation is enough for those that don't really care and just want to reflexively debunk anything that doesn't fit their world view. If you really care, you can watch him talk with alex dietrich one of the pilots[2]. She explains to him quite well that his "explanations" for what they saw are complete nonesense. But that doesn't get you the headlines as the great debunker. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmnqd/obamas-presidential-library-has-thousands-of-files-on-ufos https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmnqd/obamas-presidential-l... [1] https://youtu.be/u1hNYs55sqs?t=5 https://youtu.be/u1hNYs55sqs?t=5 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwZU6RiTEAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwZU6RiTEAw

defrost 4y ago
I wouldn't trust the US Govt to lie straight in bed. This is why we have multiple confirmations and public databases: The Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO) was set up in 1996 with its headquarters in Vienna, Austria. It is an interim organization tasked with building up the verification regime of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty (CTBT) in preparation for the Treaty's entry into force, as well as promoting the Treaty's universality. All six nuclear tests by North Korea were clearly detected by Australia’s IMS seismic stations,” Zerbo said. ~ https://www.ctbto.org/resources/for-the-media/press-releases/australia-completes-its-monitoring-stations-global-network https://www.ctbto.org/resources/for-the-media/press-releases... https://www.ga.gov.au/education/classroom-resources/hazards/natural-hazards/nuclear-monitoring https://www.ga.gov.au/education/classroom-resources/hazards/...
- dtx1 4y ago
  Making my point for me, all that Data could be trivially faked, in 5 years probably by telling chatGPT10.3 "Make a website proving that North Korea exploded nukes" and I have 0 way to verify any of this. Yet I believe that those Sensors Measured what they did and north korea did in fact explode a few nukes.
  - defrost 4y ago
    How would chatGPT "trivially fake" paper readouts digitised and signed in real time from multiple sensor sites controlled by multiple independent countries and legal jurisdictions? > and I have 0 way to verify any of this. That would be because you haven't joined any geophysical data organisations .. and that'd be on you.
    - dTal 4y ago
      I notice "argument from personal ignorance" is common in "believer" circles (not just of aliens, but of all kinds of conspiracy theories). If you happen to be well educated enough to provide a detailed explanation of why a particular thing they've said doesn't hold water, it's frustratingly common for them to fall back on "well I'm not an expert, I don't know all the details, I'm just asking questions." Somehow it never occurs to them not to make wild assertions when they "don't know all the details".