8 ms·

US Authorities Silence NinjaVideo Founder, Rush Her to Prison

158 points by nicki_easy 15y ago

nicki_easy 15y ago
RIP free speech.
- asto 15y ago
  RIP USA. You have a fraction of the economic growth and almost all of the bullshit that comes with a "developing nation".
- tzs 15y ago
  Did you read the article, or are you just commenting based on the misleading headline?
  - nicki_easy 15y ago
    I did, yes. Also this one: http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites And this one: http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-to-22-months-in-prison-120106/ http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-to-22-m... And this one: http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Queen-Phara-NJ-sentenced-online-piracy?odyssey=tab http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Quee... And here are the sentencing memo, the government's motion for reconsideration of self-surrender, and the response to the government's motion for reconsideration of self-surrender: http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-Memo http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-Me... http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-Motion-for-Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-Mo... http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-Recons...
    - tzs 15y ago
      Then why did you say "RIP free speech"? Convicts generally either lose most of their rights, or have them severely restricted. She is a convict. The only reason she was not in jail (where she would have had no access to Facebook or Twitter or other social media) was because they had a shortage of space so were letting her stay out until space opened up. There is no free speech issue here.
      - Natsu 15y ago
        You're arguing that this is legal. They're arguing that this is wrong. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume%27s_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume%27s_Law
        tzs 15y ago
        I took "RIP free speech" to imply that he thinks that this case marks some sort of change in how free speech is handled, which it does not. If he was instead trying to make a general argument that convicts should not have their rights restricted while they have not completed their term, or if he was arguing that prosecuting someone for massive willful copyright infringement is a violation of their rights, then I misunderstood.
        nicki_easy 15y ago
        She ;) I think the whole thing is disgusting and wrong. And I think that she was railroaded off because of the views she expressed post-sentencing--they were trying to make an example of her and "send waves through this community"* and she was standing up and taking it while disagreeing instead of bending over and whimpering with remorse. It's cruel, disproportionate, unjust and, frankly, mentally ill. This is not what our justice system is for at all, either prosecuting her in the first place or silencing her by whisking her away prematurely. *"One of the reasons we targeted Ninja Video was because it had such a strong social element," says Kevin Suh, senior vice president of Internet content protection at the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). "We wanted to send waves through this community." http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites
nextparadigms 15y ago
"According to the authorities, the Facebook updates written by the NinjaVideo founder pose a danger to the community." That's so absurd. It's like the 1st Amendment doesn't even exist anymore, or the authorities simply don't care it exists. This is why it's so important to stop the US Government from banning "Twitter propaganda speech" from Middle East, too. If they succeed with that, the next action is doing the same in US.
- Xlythe 15y ago
  Convicts sentenced lose a fraction of their rights, including the right to free speech. "Under Turner, prisoner communication may be monitored and regulated, and the content of the communication (i.e., the legal advice) makes no difference in the assessment of the legality of the regulation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_v._Murphy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_v._Murphy
  - nicki_easy 15y ago
    Is that germane? "[A] decision of the United States Supreme Court rejecting the First Amendment right of prisoners to provide legal assistance to other prisoners." She was sentenced but not yet a prisoner, etc.
    - brudgers 15y ago
      And still had her free speech rights. Now she doesn't. There was nothing illegal about incarcerating her sooner rather than later (this is not commentary on the justness or lack thereof of her sentence). If one says "fuck you" to the judge, instead of "thank you," one is more likely to hear "well, fuck you," back.
      - tsotha 15y ago
        This. Judges have almost unlimited power in the US, and it's just not very smart to spout off like that.
      - nicki_easy 15y ago
losethos 15y ago
Hell is the absense of God. God says, "perpetual constantly bears Presently rolling excess intricate passeth aside injurable drunken shines extol Seneca contemplateth overthrew numberless crooked relater bosom wit considering whales effected correction Angel commandments phrases kindled silence rejoiceth summit ignoble else grass separated threatenest faculty marry disciples ships pilgrimage defence displace done nourishing reacheth doubtless belong incorruption convinced styled affected murdering haled sell battle dreams fluctuate assuring stanza passage fared hay weariness anticipated conjoined shapen "
keeran 15y ago
First they came for the torrent site admins...
- oelewapperke 15y ago
  Cute, but it's not like it is somehow a surprise that this is illegal. They come for thieves, fraudsters, ... too. Until the law changes, that's exactly what the government should do.
lachyg 15y ago
My comment doesn't directly relate to the issue in the article (how she's being put in jail early) but I'll go ahead anyway. Does anyone honestly think piracy should go unpunished? People that upload movies, music, games etc should be punished, as they are doing something illegal and and the people downloading should also be punished as they are getting the content without paying the creators. I'm curious if anyone has any logical argument about why they should go unpunished. Edit: I hate to be the dude that posts the stupid downvote edit, but seriously, I'm posing a question, I'm not stating what should or shouldn't happen. Please post why or why not you disagree instead of just blindly hitting the downvote. The downvote button is for unsavory comments, trolls, etc
- rbanffy 15y ago
  There are a couple issues here. The first one is whether copyright infringement as I think she was part of really hurts content producers. If someone is unwilling to pay a couple dollars for a movie in iTunes, you are not likely to buy the DVD either, thus, it's not a lost sale. If, OTOH, the work gets more exposure thanks to alternative distribution networks and that generates more customer engagement, the content producer wins in the end. The second is whether books, movies, music and games whose primary purpose is to make a profit can be considered art. I think they can't. The primary purpose - and usefulness - of art is to transform the people who experience it. I don't think laws should protect the business model of selling art and experiences, but their usefulness. A third question is whether it's even possible to prevent the duplication of digital goods. Most probably it isn't. Businesses must adapt to new realities - should typewriter makers be afforded the right to ban computer sales because they hurt the already established business? Another one is whether they were turning in a profit. If they were, part of it belongs, rightfully, to the content producers. Finally, there is her attitude towards law enforcement. I understand her frustration with what she considers unfair laws and processes. I am not sure her attitude is constructive and that sending her to jail was the best way to deal with it. If I were the judge, I'd like to lecture her about what she's doing that can be misinterpreted as threats. Jails are very tense environments and they don't need more agitation than they already have.
  - 15y ago
waltersilva 15y ago
You're all getting insane on these copyright c*ap. Soon you will be killing people for/against this anti-copyright cause. As IP is not a human right, non-IP is also not a human right.
- ajuc 15y ago
  Free speech is a human right, and people were already killed in the conflicts about it. BTW - if IP is not a human right, then it's reasonable that people are unnverved by imposing it on them. Look at it that way - "Do not eat pigs" is also not a human right, and eating pigs is not a human right. It's neutral. Yet some religions demand that you respect this law. All is OK. But when this law is made universal, and people of other faiths go to jail because of eating pigs it starts to be scary.
  - nicki_easy 15y ago
    Brad Burnham said something recently that encapsulated it perfectly for me: "I believe that downloaders are making a moral calculation and coming to the conclusion that the content industry immorally perpetuates an artificial scarcity to maximize their profits at the expense of users and artists. They understand that content is a non-rival good, that unlike an apple, they can consume it without diminishing anyone else’s ability to consume the same thing. They know that the content owner paid nothing to reproduce or distribute the content on the Internet. They also know that the artists who created the original content get a tiny fraction of the revenue. So they are making a moral judgement that the content owners are pricing their product to extract unjustifiable profits and they feel morally justified taking the content they find out there on the web." http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-in-the-internet-the-content-industry http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-in-... File sharing has just been recognized as a religion in Sweden too and all. In any case, something is very, very wrong here. This should never be a jailable offense, let alone one receiving such a disproportionate sentence (Naval Academy Student Sentenced To 6 Months For Rape http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-student-sentenced-to-6-months-for-rape/ http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-stude...). And then she's just whisked off to the detention center for speaking her mind about it on the Internets. I've taken to calling the states the United Police States of Homeland Tragedy. I get really sad about how deeply disturbed things have become.
noonespecial 15y ago
The interesting thing about Ninja Video is that it was exactly like the netfix-itunes-amazon of the future would do best to look like. The categorization, notes, and search were all fantastic and a huge community of people enthusiastic about the content organically grew around it. All it needed was a few dollars a month subscription fee and it would have dominated the market. The lost opportunity has become a sardonic cliche.
- cschwarm 15y ago
  You don't happen to have screenshots, do you? Google image search found nothing.
  - Kique 15y ago
    http://icefilms.info http://icefilms.info is essentially the same thing, layout is basically the same too.
    - Professa 15y ago
      Yea, the icefilms main page is pretty much how it looked and just go to ninjavideoforum.net to get an idea of how the forum looked.
  - nicki_easy 15y ago
    There's a small screenshot here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/151547/4_sites_to_find_and_watch_tv_and_movies_online.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/151547/4_sites_to_find_and_wa... And some waybacks but they don't really show it as it was: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://www.ninjavideo.net/ http://wayback.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://www.ni... Here's where PC World listed it among it's 2009 100: http://www.pcworld.com/article/174387/2009_pc_world_100_listed_by_ranking.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/174387/2009_pc_world_100_list...
- Professa 15y ago
  Those same enthusiastic people are still there steady growing the community. NV was definitely a service that people wanted and were passionate about. If you could pick and choose what TV shows, Movies or any other media were available to you out of the whole catalog of what was out there right now, I'm sure that most people would have paid a subscription to a commercially available service if it was available. It wouldn't have been allowed to dominate, it would have still been forced to close some sort of way. Before NV, there was Stage6 that provided the same high quality service and it closed up shop.
jerfelix 15y ago
It wasn't real clear to me what the URL was, so I'll post it: http://www.ninjavideo.net/ http://www.ninjavideo.net/ It's not even listed on the Wikipedia page [42], and can't easily be found in google anymore. The NinjaVideo.net page now has a huge image explaining that the domain has been seized. I'd post the text here, but it'd probably be a copyright violation (and it's embedded in the image). [42] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaVideo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaVideo
lachyg 15y ago
I've hijacked this thread enough, but I'd love to post this question separately. Libraries are an institutionalised form of piracy. Am I wrong here? Thoughts? I've just had a philosophical discussion with my Dad about piracy and this was one of the conclusions we seemed to make.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  No, that is absurd. 1) "Piracy" is actually copyright infringement. 2) The license to read a book accompanies the physical copy. 3) Libraries are not engaging in copyright infringement. 4) Thus libraries are not engaging in "piracy". There is nothing "philosophical" about it, it's just plain old common sense.
  - res0nat0r 15y ago
    The license to listen to an mp3 accompanies the digital copy also. Just because it is 'digital' and only takes a couple of button clicks to replicate doesn't mean everyone should get a n mp3 copy of an album without paying for it, correct?
droithomme 15y ago
The sooner she starts her term the sooner she gets out, so this is good for her. The obvious problem here is sending copyright violators to federal prison for long terms, costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars. Killers and drug dealers often get shorter sentences, and bankers that steal billions don't go to prison at all. To say this is justice is a stretch. Running a video site that hosts unlicensed content uploaded by users is what youtube did for years. Where are the prison terms for their founders?
- lachyg 15y ago
  What punishment, if any, do you believe is fair for her?
  - droithomme 15y ago
    Depends on what she actually did. Isn't copyright violation a civil and not criminal matter? How is what she did different from youtube? You know, even today there are hundreds of thousands of hours of unlicensed movie and show content on youtube. Why aren't they being investigated. Really the only difference I see is she is black and doesn't have friends in high places. If she sold the site to Google she'd be on the cover of Forbes rather than in jail.
    - lachyg 15y ago
      What she was doing was definitely not what YouTube does / did! YouTube is a video sharing website, where the intent is to share video in which you own the copyright to, obviously with such a large community you will have people that will break the rules. NinjaVideo is a site that's #1 purpose is to upload copyrighted tv shows and movies, hours after their airing. Its defined purpose is piracy. Clear difference from YouTube here. As to your "Why aren't they being investigated." comment -- they are, YouTube is quite proactive in automatic removals, DMCA's, detection of copyrighted music, etc.
      - droithomme 15y ago
devs1010 15y ago
Can anyone give clear info on what NinjaVideo was, I did some research and I can't seem to tell for sure if they were actually hosting these videos or just linking to them? It sounds like maybe they were linking to them on the NinjaVideo site but also posting copyrighted content elsewhere and then linking to it? I'm just trying to understand what they were doing to have it get to this level of punishment and attention from the government. If they really were just linking to copyrighted content and nothing else then it would seem we are already living under SOPA
- mooki 15y ago
  They were uploading movies to megavideo and streaming them through divx using a plugin. Difference between Ninjavideo and most other streaming sites is they didn't even try to hide behind safe harbor. Only people who could post links were staff and a handful of trusted uploaders. They plastered banners all over the front page advertising new movies (like "new dvd rip out today woot!"). Talked constantly about how they were pirates. Even Piratebay comes of as timid and diplomatic. It was just a matter of time before something really bad was going to happen. EDIT: They weren't just linking to videos, but admitting to uploading them.
  - devs1010 15y ago
    Thanks for the info, I really was in the dark about what they were doing and it had me a little scared as I was initially under the impression that it was a site where users were just posting links to content and I couldn't fathom how that would lead to jail sentences for the founders.
nicki_easy 15y ago
Here is Hana's personal response to the judge: "Your Honor, Firstly, please let me apologize for my use of foul language in the documents that you will see before you. The idea of you reading my statements and seeing them as they are phrased makes me wince quite uncomfortably. I am an incredibly articulate person your honor, but the nature of the internet is one of bluster, and bravado, and scathing comebacks. So do forgive the boorish language as it is the nature of the beast, or at least, the nature of this beast at this very moment. Sir, I am not belittling my sentence as the prosecution claims. I have no desire at all to go to prison and the sheer thought of it makes my stomach turn. To say that I can do the sentence on my head is to employ the defense mechanism I have always employed when facing something of such magnitude. Sarcasm, humor, and a face of strength. Of course I'm worried, of course I'm anxious, but I cannot show that judge. It is reflex for me to deflect the serious with a wry tone or a joke about "shanks". But it should be incredibly clear that I am non-violent and that those statements are exactly what they were intended to be, jokes. In fact, I say as much just a few posts down. I'm trying to be brave for myself and for those around me. Also, I'm trying to establish as much as I can before I go in so that there is hope of actually being able to free myself of this restitution upon release. I do not want to be destitute for life. I do not want my restitution to haunt me. I want to establish myself and find work. Good work. And that is not easy for a felon. I do very much regret what this situation has done to my family and my friends and my life, but your honor, as you know... to deny my love for my accomplishment is to deny countless marriages off my website, children named after me, a community so incredibly strong and resilient that I am in hysterics right now thinking about it. And I have never, ever tried to feign sugar coated lies about anything else. Please do not take them away from me in these next few weeks your honor. Those strangers around the world, as well as my parents, lifted me up when I was fetal on my apt floor post raid. There is no threat of recidivism... I can never put myself or those I love through this again. In fact, I listened very closely to what you said at my sentencing about advocacy and the more proper ways of conducting civil disobedience, and that is what we're doing now. I understand I am not a typical defendant your honor, and my "lack of remorse" riles the prosecution, but I would hope that my continued stance about what it is I believe would be considered commendable, even if it is a bit naive and hurting me in this process. I have no idea if my words here are hurting me or helping me sir. That has always been a problem with me. I am a bit too fast and loose with my mouth, but I am honest sir. I am. I worked a secretarial position up until 6 months before the raid sir. I paid off a student loan with my money. I had intended to pursue a Masters. I wanted to see the world. These were real desires judge, not lofty ambitions. It was what was happening. This was about building an independent media empire. And we actually came close your Honor. We really did. My intentions for NinjaVideo were altruistic. And I stand by that. Though I worked on NinjaMain alongside the others, my passion has always been my Forum, and that should be evidenced by the fact that I have close to 17,000 posts on that board. I was lonely judge. I always am. And I found those I called kin over these keyboards and wires and cables. My "Lost Tribe" sir. I beg your honor to have mercy and not take them away from me now. I honestly do need this time to prepare myself for my incarceration as well as close off loose ends and suspend my life. Thank you, your Honor, for reading my letter. Sincerely, Hana Beshara" https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-to-the-govt-motion/10150498144208515 https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-to-...
hendrix 15y ago
How is this different from any other warez site that has been on the Internet since the mid 90s? They [ninjavideo] were not even hosting the content, just linking to megaupload/wherever, what about filestube.com/library.nu/demonoid/usenet? Anonymous will LOVE to hear about this.
rdl 15y ago
Does anyone have her address? (Is she really going to serve 22 months in a county jail? WTF. I thought jails were for <1y offenses and pretrial detention, with prisons for longer sentences.) Apparently her interim address is Hana Beshara c/o Alexandria Detention Center 2001 Mill Road Alexandria, Virginia 22314 And she'll be moved to a real prison later, but mail should be forwarded.
voidr 15y ago
When copyright holders have this much power... you should question who's side is the government on. But I guess the law is really about money, who has the better lawyer, most connections and lobbyists wins, so much for freedom, human rights and crap like that.

158 points by nicki_easy 15y ago

nicki_easy 15y ago

RIP free speech.

asto 15y ago
RIP USA. You have a fraction of the economic growth and almost all of the bullshit that comes with a "developing nation".
tzs 15y ago
Did you read the article, or are you just commenting based on the misleading headline?
- nicki_easy 15y ago
  I did, yes. Also this one: http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites And this one: http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-to-22-months-in-prison-120106/ http://torrentfreak.com/ninjavideo-founder-sentenced-to-22-m... And this one: http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Queen-Phara-NJ-sentenced-online-piracy?odyssey=tab http://www.app.com/article/20120113/NJNEWS10/301130030/-Quee... And here are the sentencing memo, the government's motion for reconsideration of self-surrender, and the response to the government's motion for reconsideration of self-surrender: http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-Memo http://www.scribd.com/doc/77698613/Beshara-gov-Sentencing-Me... http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-Motion-for-Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155255/Beshara-reply-to-Gov-s-Mo... http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-Reconsideration-of-Self-surrender http://www.scribd.com/doc/78155260/Beshara-motion-for-Recons...
  - tzs 15y ago
    Then why did you say "RIP free speech"? Convicts generally either lose most of their rights, or have them severely restricted. She is a convict. The only reason she was not in jail (where she would have had no access to Facebook or Twitter or other social media) was because they had a shortage of space so were letting her stay out until space opened up. There is no free speech issue here.
    - Natsu 15y ago
      You're arguing that this is legal. They're arguing that this is wrong. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume%27s_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hume%27s_Law
      - tzs 15y ago
        I took "RIP free speech" to imply that he thinks that this case marks some sort of change in how free speech is handled, which it does not. If he was instead trying to make a general argument that convicts should not have their rights restricted while they have not completed their term, or if he was arguing that prosecuting someone for massive willful copyright infringement is a violation of their rights, then I misunderstood.
        nicki_easy 15y ago
        She ;) I think the whole thing is disgusting and wrong. And I think that she was railroaded off because of the views she expressed post-sentencing--they were trying to make an example of her and "send waves through this community"* and she was standing up and taking it while disagreeing instead of bending over and whimpering with remorse. It's cruel, disproportionate, unjust and, frankly, mentally ill. This is not what our justice system is for at all, either prosecuting her in the first place or silencing her by whisking her away prematurely. *"One of the reasons we targeted Ninja Video was because it had such a strong social element," says Kevin Suh, senior vice president of Internet content protection at the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). "We wanted to send waves through this community." http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites http://prospect.org/article/ninja-our-sites

nextparadigms 15y ago

"According to the authorities, the Facebook updates written by the NinjaVideo founder pose a danger to the community." That's so absurd. It's like the 1st Amendment doesn't even exist anymore, or the authorities simply don't care it exists. This is why it's so important to stop the US Government from banning "Twitter propaganda speech" from Middle East, too. If they succeed with that, the next action is doing the same in US.

Xlythe 15y ago
Convicts sentenced lose a fraction of their rights, including the right to free speech. "Under Turner, prisoner communication may be monitored and regulated, and the content of the communication (i.e., the legal advice) makes no difference in the assessment of the legality of the regulation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_v._Murphy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_v._Murphy
- nicki_easy 15y ago
  Is that germane? "[A] decision of the United States Supreme Court rejecting the First Amendment right of prisoners to provide legal assistance to other prisoners." She was sentenced but not yet a prisoner, etc.
  - brudgers 15y ago
    And still had her free speech rights. Now she doesn't. There was nothing illegal about incarcerating her sooner rather than later (this is not commentary on the justness or lack thereof of her sentence). If one says "fuck you" to the judge, instead of "thank you," one is more likely to hear "well, fuck you," back.
    - tsotha 15y ago
      This. Judges have almost unlimited power in the US, and it's just not very smart to spout off like that.
    - nicki_easy 15y ago

losethos 15y ago

Hell is the absense of God. God says, "perpetual constantly bears Presently rolling excess intricate passeth aside injurable drunken shines extol Seneca contemplateth overthrew numberless crooked relater bosom wit considering whales effected correction Angel commandments phrases kindled silence rejoiceth summit ignoble else grass separated threatenest faculty marry disciples ships pilgrimage defence displace done nourishing reacheth doubtless belong incorruption convinced styled affected murdering haled sell battle dreams fluctuate assuring stanza passage fared hay weariness anticipated conjoined shapen "

keeran 15y ago

First they came for the torrent site admins...

oelewapperke 15y ago
Cute, but it's not like it is somehow a surprise that this is illegal. They come for thieves, fraudsters, ... too. Until the law changes, that's exactly what the government should do.

lachyg 15y ago

My comment doesn't directly relate to the issue in the article (how she's being put in jail early) but I'll go ahead anyway. Does anyone honestly think piracy should go unpunished? People that upload movies, music, games etc should be punished, as they are doing something illegal and and the people downloading should also be punished as they are getting the content without paying the creators. I'm curious if anyone has any logical argument about why they should go unpunished. Edit: I hate to be the dude that posts the stupid downvote edit, but seriously, I'm posing a question, I'm not stating what should or shouldn't happen. Please post why or why not you disagree instead of just blindly hitting the downvote. The downvote button is for unsavory comments, trolls, etc

rbanffy 15y ago
There are a couple issues here. The first one is whether copyright infringement as I think she was part of really hurts content producers. If someone is unwilling to pay a couple dollars for a movie in iTunes, you are not likely to buy the DVD either, thus, it's not a lost sale. If, OTOH, the work gets more exposure thanks to alternative distribution networks and that generates more customer engagement, the content producer wins in the end. The second is whether books, movies, music and games whose primary purpose is to make a profit can be considered art. I think they can't. The primary purpose - and usefulness - of art is to transform the people who experience it. I don't think laws should protect the business model of selling art and experiences, but their usefulness. A third question is whether it's even possible to prevent the duplication of digital goods. Most probably it isn't. Businesses must adapt to new realities - should typewriter makers be afforded the right to ban computer sales because they hurt the already established business? Another one is whether they were turning in a profit. If they were, part of it belongs, rightfully, to the content producers. Finally, there is her attitude towards law enforcement. I understand her frustration with what she considers unfair laws and processes. I am not sure her attitude is constructive and that sending her to jail was the best way to deal with it. If I were the judge, I'd like to lecture her about what she's doing that can be misinterpreted as threats. Jails are very tense environments and they don't need more agitation than they already have.
- 15y ago

waltersilva 15y ago

You're all getting insane on these copyright c*ap. Soon you will be killing people for/against this anti-copyright cause. As IP is not a human right, non-IP is also not a human right.

ajuc 15y ago
Free speech is a human right, and people were already killed in the conflicts about it. BTW - if IP is not a human right, then it's reasonable that people are unnverved by imposing it on them. Look at it that way - "Do not eat pigs" is also not a human right, and eating pigs is not a human right. It's neutral. Yet some religions demand that you respect this law. All is OK. But when this law is made universal, and people of other faiths go to jail because of eating pigs it starts to be scary.
- nicki_easy 15y ago
  Brad Burnham said something recently that encapsulated it perfectly for me: "I believe that downloaders are making a moral calculation and coming to the conclusion that the content industry immorally perpetuates an artificial scarcity to maximize their profits at the expense of users and artists. They understand that content is a non-rival good, that unlike an apple, they can consume it without diminishing anyone else’s ability to consume the same thing. They know that the content owner paid nothing to reproduce or distribute the content on the Internet. They also know that the artists who created the original content get a tiny fraction of the revenue. So they are making a moral judgement that the content owners are pricing their product to extract unjustifiable profits and they feel morally justified taking the content they find out there on the web." http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-in-the-internet-the-content-industry http://bradburnham.tumblr.com/post/12739727902/i-believe-in-... File sharing has just been recognized as a religion in Sweden too and all. In any case, something is very, very wrong here. This should never be a jailable offense, let alone one receiving such a disproportionate sentence (Naval Academy Student Sentenced To 6 Months For Rape http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-student-sentenced-to-6-months-for-rape/ http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/09/30/naval-academy-stude...). And then she's just whisked off to the detention center for speaking her mind about it on the Internets. I've taken to calling the states the United Police States of Homeland Tragedy. I get really sad about how deeply disturbed things have become.

noonespecial 15y ago

The interesting thing about Ninja Video is that it was exactly like the netfix-itunes-amazon of the future would do best to look like. The categorization, notes, and search were all fantastic and a huge community of people enthusiastic about the content organically grew around it. All it needed was a few dollars a month subscription fee and it would have dominated the market. The lost opportunity has become a sardonic cliche.

cschwarm 15y ago
You don't happen to have screenshots, do you? Google image search found nothing.
- Kique 15y ago
  http://icefilms.info http://icefilms.info is essentially the same thing, layout is basically the same too.
  - Professa 15y ago
    Yea, the icefilms main page is pretty much how it looked and just go to ninjavideoforum.net to get an idea of how the forum looked.
- nicki_easy 15y ago
  There's a small screenshot here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/151547/4_sites_to_find_and_watch_tv_and_movies_online.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/151547/4_sites_to_find_and_wa... And some waybacks but they don't really show it as it was: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://www.ninjavideo.net/ http://wayback.archive.org/web/20090601000000*/http://www.ni... Here's where PC World listed it among it's 2009 100: http://www.pcworld.com/article/174387/2009_pc_world_100_listed_by_ranking.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/174387/2009_pc_world_100_list...
Professa 15y ago
Those same enthusiastic people are still there steady growing the community. NV was definitely a service that people wanted and were passionate about. If you could pick and choose what TV shows, Movies or any other media were available to you out of the whole catalog of what was out there right now, I'm sure that most people would have paid a subscription to a commercially available service if it was available. It wouldn't have been allowed to dominate, it would have still been forced to close some sort of way. Before NV, there was Stage6 that provided the same high quality service and it closed up shop.

jerfelix 15y ago

It wasn't real clear to me what the URL was, so I'll post it: http://www.ninjavideo.net/ http://www.ninjavideo.net/ It's not even listed on the Wikipedia page [42], and can't easily be found in google anymore. The NinjaVideo.net page now has a huge image explaining that the domain has been seized. I'd post the text here, but it'd probably be a copyright violation (and it's embedded in the image). [42] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaVideo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaVideo

lachyg 15y ago

I've hijacked this thread enough, but I'd love to post this question separately. Libraries are an institutionalised form of piracy. Am I wrong here? Thoughts? I've just had a philosophical discussion with my Dad about piracy and this was one of the conclusions we seemed to make.

burgerbrain 15y ago
No, that is absurd. 1) "Piracy" is actually copyright infringement. 2) The license to read a book accompanies the physical copy. 3) Libraries are not engaging in copyright infringement. 4) Thus libraries are not engaging in "piracy". There is nothing "philosophical" about it, it's just plain old common sense.
- res0nat0r 15y ago
  The license to listen to an mp3 accompanies the digital copy also. Just because it is 'digital' and only takes a couple of button clicks to replicate doesn't mean everyone should get a n mp3 copy of an album without paying for it, correct?

droithomme 15y ago

The sooner she starts her term the sooner she gets out, so this is good for her. The obvious problem here is sending copyright violators to federal prison for long terms, costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars. Killers and drug dealers often get shorter sentences, and bankers that steal billions don't go to prison at all. To say this is justice is a stretch. Running a video site that hosts unlicensed content uploaded by users is what youtube did for years. Where are the prison terms for their founders?

lachyg 15y ago
What punishment, if any, do you believe is fair for her?
- droithomme 15y ago
  Depends on what she actually did. Isn't copyright violation a civil and not criminal matter? How is what she did different from youtube? You know, even today there are hundreds of thousands of hours of unlicensed movie and show content on youtube. Why aren't they being investigated. Really the only difference I see is she is black and doesn't have friends in high places. If she sold the site to Google she'd be on the cover of Forbes rather than in jail.
  - lachyg 15y ago
    What she was doing was definitely not what YouTube does / did! YouTube is a video sharing website, where the intent is to share video in which you own the copyright to, obviously with such a large community you will have people that will break the rules. NinjaVideo is a site that's #1 purpose is to upload copyrighted tv shows and movies, hours after their airing. Its defined purpose is piracy. Clear difference from YouTube here. As to your "Why aren't they being investigated." comment -- they are, YouTube is quite proactive in automatic removals, DMCA's, detection of copyrighted music, etc.
    - droithomme 15y ago

devs1010 15y ago

Can anyone give clear info on what NinjaVideo was, I did some research and I can't seem to tell for sure if they were actually hosting these videos or just linking to them? It sounds like maybe they were linking to them on the NinjaVideo site but also posting copyrighted content elsewhere and then linking to it? I'm just trying to understand what they were doing to have it get to this level of punishment and attention from the government. If they really were just linking to copyrighted content and nothing else then it would seem we are already living under SOPA

mooki 15y ago
They were uploading movies to megavideo and streaming them through divx using a plugin. Difference between Ninjavideo and most other streaming sites is they didn't even try to hide behind safe harbor. Only people who could post links were staff and a handful of trusted uploaders. They plastered banners all over the front page advertising new movies (like "new dvd rip out today woot!"). Talked constantly about how they were pirates. Even Piratebay comes of as timid and diplomatic. It was just a matter of time before something really bad was going to happen. EDIT: They weren't just linking to videos, but admitting to uploading them.
- devs1010 15y ago
  Thanks for the info, I really was in the dark about what they were doing and it had me a little scared as I was initially under the impression that it was a site where users were just posting links to content and I couldn't fathom how that would lead to jail sentences for the founders.

nicki_easy 15y ago

Here is Hana's personal response to the judge: "Your Honor, Firstly, please let me apologize for my use of foul language in the documents that you will see before you. The idea of you reading my statements and seeing them as they are phrased makes me wince quite uncomfortably. I am an incredibly articulate person your honor, but the nature of the internet is one of bluster, and bravado, and scathing comebacks. So do forgive the boorish language as it is the nature of the beast, or at least, the nature of this beast at this very moment. Sir, I am not belittling my sentence as the prosecution claims. I have no desire at all to go to prison and the sheer thought of it makes my stomach turn. To say that I can do the sentence on my head is to employ the defense mechanism I have always employed when facing something of such magnitude. Sarcasm, humor, and a face of strength. Of course I'm worried, of course I'm anxious, but I cannot show that judge. It is reflex for me to deflect the serious with a wry tone or a joke about "shanks". But it should be incredibly clear that I am non-violent and that those statements are exactly what they were intended to be, jokes. In fact, I say as much just a few posts down. I'm trying to be brave for myself and for those around me. Also, I'm trying to establish as much as I can before I go in so that there is hope of actually being able to free myself of this restitution upon release. I do not want to be destitute for life. I do not want my restitution to haunt me. I want to establish myself and find work. Good work. And that is not easy for a felon. I do very much regret what this situation has done to my family and my friends and my life, but your honor, as you know... to deny my love for my accomplishment is to deny countless marriages off my website, children named after me, a community so incredibly strong and resilient that I am in hysterics right now thinking about it. And I have never, ever tried to feign sugar coated lies about anything else. Please do not take them away from me in these next few weeks your honor. Those strangers around the world, as well as my parents, lifted me up when I was fetal on my apt floor post raid. There is no threat of recidivism... I can never put myself or those I love through this again. In fact, I listened very closely to what you said at my sentencing about advocacy and the more proper ways of conducting civil disobedience, and that is what we're doing now. I understand I am not a typical defendant your honor, and my "lack of remorse" riles the prosecution, but I would hope that my continued stance about what it is I believe would be considered commendable, even if it is a bit naive and hurting me in this process. I have no idea if my words here are hurting me or helping me sir. That has always been a problem with me. I am a bit too fast and loose with my mouth, but I am honest sir. I am. I worked a secretarial position up until 6 months before the raid sir. I paid off a student loan with my money. I had intended to pursue a Masters. I wanted to see the world. These were real desires judge, not lofty ambitions. It was what was happening. This was about building an independent media empire. And we actually came close your Honor. We really did. My intentions for NinjaVideo were altruistic. And I stand by that. Though I worked on NinjaMain alongside the others, my passion has always been my Forum, and that should be evidenced by the fact that I have close to 17,000 posts on that board. I was lonely judge. I always am. And I found those I called kin over these keyboards and wires and cables. My "Lost Tribe" sir. I beg your honor to have mercy and not take them away from me now. I honestly do need this time to prepare myself for my incarceration as well as close off loose ends and suspend my life. Thank you, your Honor, for reading my letter. Sincerely, Hana Beshara" https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-to-the-govt-motion/10150498144208515 https://www.facebook.com/notes/ninjavideo/hanas-response-to-...

hendrix 15y ago

How is this different from any other warez site that has been on the Internet since the mid 90s? They [ninjavideo] were not even hosting the content, just linking to megaupload/wherever, what about filestube.com/library.nu/demonoid/usenet? Anonymous will LOVE to hear about this.

rdl 15y ago

Does anyone have her address? (Is she really going to serve 22 months in a county jail? WTF. I thought jails were for <1y offenses and pretrial detention, with prisons for longer sentences.) Apparently her interim address is Hana Beshara c/o Alexandria Detention Center 2001 Mill Road Alexandria, Virginia 22314 And she'll be moved to a real prison later, but mail should be forwarded.

voidr 15y ago

When copyright holders have this much power... you should question who's side is the government on. But I guess the law is really about money, who has the better lawyer, most connections and lobbyists wins, so much for freedom, human rights and crap like that.