6 ms·

If you make that pen available to me under these conditions? Sure. If you "just give" me something without any conditions then no, you could definitely not cla

If you make that pen available to me under these conditions? Sure. If you "just give" me something without any conditions then no, you could definitely not claim that story. But if you make that pen, your property, available to me explicitly only for work and nothing else? It's your property, not mine. I only have whatever rights you grant me to it.

VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
Only if you sign the contract!
- munchler 4y ago
  You don’t get the pen without signing the contract.
  - VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
    You can’t sign the contract without the pen.
amelius 4y ago
Let's make this example a little more extreme to show how nonsensical a company claim is on stuff they did not create (or pay for). If I used the company computer to access a dating-website, then could the company claim ownership of my firstborn child, if that was in the contract?
- riskable 4y ago
  > If I used the company computer to access a dating-website, then could the company claim ownership of my firstborn child No, but first kiss is definitely on the table.
nhchris 4y ago
> If you make that pen available to me under these conditions? Sure. Let's leave aside whether the law (in whatever country) permits such a one-sided contract, and ask - should it permit it? There are plenty of contract terms that are illegal (i.e. not backed by law), such as usury [1] or various anti-competitive practices, because their enforcement is seen as either unfair, or a detriment to society, regardless of whether they were entered freely. Contracts are not and should not be above the law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Usury_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Usury_law
- 7steps2much 4y ago
  > because their enforcement is seen as either unfair, or a detriment to society I mean, I do agree with you in general, its just that I do not see this issue as a detriment to society. If someone demands massive interest rates on loans that you need to survive thats definitely unethical. A company demanding that you do not use their laptop so that you can work on your side projects at home ... well, that doesn't quite sound as bad. There is nothing stopping you from just buying your own device. Thats like saying "only use the company car for work stuff" ... it just doesn't seem that unfair or unethical to me to be honest.

VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago

Only if you sign the contract!

munchler 4y ago
You don’t get the pen without signing the contract.
- VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
  You can’t sign the contract without the pen.

amelius 4y ago

Let's make this example a little more extreme to show how nonsensical a company claim is on stuff they did not create (or pay for). If I used the company computer to access a dating-website, then could the company claim ownership of my firstborn child, if that was in the contract?

riskable 4y ago
> If I used the company computer to access a dating-website, then could the company claim ownership of my firstborn child No, but first kiss is definitely on the table.

nhchris 4y ago

> If you make that pen available to me under these conditions? Sure. Let's leave aside whether the law (in whatever country) permits such a one-sided contract, and ask - should it permit it? There are plenty of contract terms that are illegal (i.e. not backed by law), such as usury [1] or various anti-competitive practices, because their enforcement is seen as either unfair, or a detriment to society, regardless of whether they were entered freely. Contracts are not and should not be above the law. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Usury_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Usury_law

7steps2much 4y ago
> because their enforcement is seen as either unfair, or a detriment to society I mean, I do agree with you in general, its just that I do not see this issue as a detriment to society. If someone demands massive interest rates on loans that you need to survive thats definitely unethical. A company demanding that you do not use their laptop so that you can work on your side projects at home ... well, that doesn't quite sound as bad. There is nothing stopping you from just buying your own device. Thats like saying "only use the company car for work stuff" ... it just doesn't seem that unfair or unethical to me to be honest.