7 ms·

No, it isn't. It's just a tool designed to work with complex software development workflows, which 90% of software projects do not need. 8 commands (pull, fetch

No, it isn't. It's just a tool designed to work with complex software development workflows, which 90% of software projects do not need. 8 commands (pull, fetch, merge, push, add, commit, checkout and branch) are all you need to get going for git, which is like 2-3 more than what you need for svn/cvs. It's like getting upset that cars that are manual have an extra pedal (clutch) compared to automatic cars with their 2 (brake, accelerator).

howinteresting 4y ago
Why does any serious workflow require you to be in the middle of an interactive rebase all the time?
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  None of my serious workflows require rebases, much less interactive ones. Not that I don't do interactive rebases sometimes in local branches, but that I absolutely do not make them a part of any more general workflows. I rather try to avoid rewriting shared history where I can, and I'm happy with DAG navigation tools like --first-parent.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    How do you manage stacks of commits for code review? (I'm guessing you just don't -- a lot of git users have really messy, unprofessional repository histories. The fact that git doesn't have great tooling for history management is also an embarrassment to our profession)
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      As I stated in the comment you are replying to: > Not that I don't do interactive rebases sometimes in local branches I don't have a problem with rebasing in local branches before code review. I just don't allow rebasing once a branch has started code review, and I especially don't allow rebasing in a public integration branch ever. (I also rarely feel the need to rebase, personally, even in my own local branches. Working in better tools than git in a past life has given me a lot of the discipline I feel that I need to build good commits as I work. I make much more use of the git staging area than I see most devs generally do and use `git add --patch` and `git add --interactive` far more than `git rebase`. `git add --patch` especially is an under-sung hero that I think a lot of junior developers should learn well in advance of rebase.) Also, I'm just not that bothered by messy histories in code reviews when I review other developers work. If the idea comes across even if the commit messages don't have the greatest narrative flow or are perfect, I'm perfectly fine with that. I make sure all merges are --no-ff and after that I can browse a "clean" history post code reviews with DAG traversal tools such as --first-parent. But that also gives me an opportunity to dig back into the mess months or years later after the code review if I need to research a bug or a regression. That sort of "sewage archeology" isn't "fun" by any means, but the number of problems I've been able to solve with it is high enough I appreciate keeping that mess around in source control. It's source control's job to keep the mess for me and present me pretty views for more regular work. That's why I prefer to trust tools like --no-ff and --first-parent over --squash, because that's what source control is built to do, control old histories messy or not.
      - howinteresting 4y ago
        What can I say. You're locked into a significantly worse maximum than is possible (and exists) using better tools. In a normal workflow your commits are small enough that you don't have to do "sewage archeology".
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        I don't think you are reading me correctly. That is a rare occurrence, but it is possible when using merge commits to correctly describe the DAG. It's entirely impossible if you overly rebase/squash. Those rare times that I've needed to do it it have "saved" a project a lot of time from a major bug or regression. My normal workflow I look at a "clean" faux linear view, but it's just the "--first-parent" view of merge commits, which gives me a "PR focused" or "integration focused" view of source control first.
        howinteresting 4y ago
        If your average commit size is 30-40 lines of code, this isn't an issue. Stacks of small commits is a time-tested workflow, used by the Linux kernel among many other projects.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        I think we are talking about different things at this point, but I may be losing the thread of your argument here. I love a code review to consist of lots of small commits. I'm mostly fine if even some of them from developers more junior than me are just named "commit" if they are small. When I finish the code review I prefer to only `git merge --no-ff`. All those small commits stay in the code history in the exact form they were reviewed under. If I'm looking at history I'm most often using something like `git log --first-parent`. In my --no-ff integration branch that just shows me an integrated change list (PR list). Git gives me a "straight line" view down the DAG and hides irrelevant information I don't want in that moment like all the small "commit" commits. If for some reason I find a bug or issue in some code, I may need to drill down into specific small commits including the "commit" commits, and I have that ability because all those commits are still in the DAG.
- omnipath 4y ago
  Huh? You only rebase when you're either: * Trying to shorten commit history * Trying to merge feature branches together (main or other feature branches) * Trying to remove feature branches None of which are necessary in a lot of development models. If you have that many feature branches that you have to rebase constantly, it doesn't sound like feature branches as a concept are properly understood. The idea behind feature branching is one of 2 models: 1) either the main branch always works, and development is done in a feature branch, only to be rebased into main when development, testing, and sign off occurred, or 2) serious bug fixes occur outside the main branch, to be re-incorporated back into the main branch once it's been proven to be effective. The 1st model should only require a rebase when the feature is complete. The 2nd model MAY require a couple of rebasing, dependent on how extensive the bug fixes are, and how fast the main branch is moving along, but not to the point where constant interactively rebasing your branches is the norm.
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    If you're writing a local stack of commits, you need to do an interactive rebase to edit the commits in the middle. You can't just check out and amend earlier commits in the stack, since git has a branch-first rather than commit-first model (one of its biggest UI failures).
    - omnipath 4y ago
      No, I don't. Again, this seems to be a personal design/preference rather than a behavior git is forcing upon you, which is my point (This isn't a git issue, this is a development workflow that seems needlessly over complicated). When I do development locally, I only commit changes I want to keep. If there is something wrong, or code that needs to be modified, I make those changes, and then commit. When the work is done, if pressed upon me by the team, I rebase the local commits to a single commit before submitting a merge request.
      - howinteresting 4y ago
        It's the same development workflow used by the Linux kernel? You know? The project that Git was invented for?

howinteresting 4y ago

Why does any serious workflow require you to be in the middle of an interactive rebase all the time?

WorldMaker 4y ago
None of my serious workflows require rebases, much less interactive ones. Not that I don't do interactive rebases sometimes in local branches, but that I absolutely do not make them a part of any more general workflows. I rather try to avoid rewriting shared history where I can, and I'm happy with DAG navigation tools like --first-parent.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  How do you manage stacks of commits for code review? (I'm guessing you just don't -- a lot of git users have really messy, unprofessional repository histories. The fact that git doesn't have great tooling for history management is also an embarrassment to our profession)
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    As I stated in the comment you are replying to: > Not that I don't do interactive rebases sometimes in local branches I don't have a problem with rebasing in local branches before code review. I just don't allow rebasing once a branch has started code review, and I especially don't allow rebasing in a public integration branch ever. (I also rarely feel the need to rebase, personally, even in my own local branches. Working in better tools than git in a past life has given me a lot of the discipline I feel that I need to build good commits as I work. I make much more use of the git staging area than I see most devs generally do and use `git add --patch` and `git add --interactive` far more than `git rebase`. `git add --patch` especially is an under-sung hero that I think a lot of junior developers should learn well in advance of rebase.) Also, I'm just not that bothered by messy histories in code reviews when I review other developers work. If the idea comes across even if the commit messages don't have the greatest narrative flow or are perfect, I'm perfectly fine with that. I make sure all merges are --no-ff and after that I can browse a "clean" history post code reviews with DAG traversal tools such as --first-parent. But that also gives me an opportunity to dig back into the mess months or years later after the code review if I need to research a bug or a regression. That sort of "sewage archeology" isn't "fun" by any means, but the number of problems I've been able to solve with it is high enough I appreciate keeping that mess around in source control. It's source control's job to keep the mess for me and present me pretty views for more regular work. That's why I prefer to trust tools like --no-ff and --first-parent over --squash, because that's what source control is built to do, control old histories messy or not.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      What can I say. You're locked into a significantly worse maximum than is possible (and exists) using better tools. In a normal workflow your commits are small enough that you don't have to do "sewage archeology".
      - WorldMaker 4y ago
        I don't think you are reading me correctly. That is a rare occurrence, but it is possible when using merge commits to correctly describe the DAG. It's entirely impossible if you overly rebase/squash. Those rare times that I've needed to do it it have "saved" a project a lot of time from a major bug or regression. My normal workflow I look at a "clean" faux linear view, but it's just the "--first-parent" view of merge commits, which gives me a "PR focused" or "integration focused" view of source control first.
        howinteresting 4y ago
        If your average commit size is 30-40 lines of code, this isn't an issue. Stacks of small commits is a time-tested workflow, used by the Linux kernel among many other projects.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        I think we are talking about different things at this point, but I may be losing the thread of your argument here. I love a code review to consist of lots of small commits. I'm mostly fine if even some of them from developers more junior than me are just named "commit" if they are small. When I finish the code review I prefer to only `git merge --no-ff`. All those small commits stay in the code history in the exact form they were reviewed under. If I'm looking at history I'm most often using something like `git log --first-parent`. In my --no-ff integration branch that just shows me an integrated change list (PR list). Git gives me a "straight line" view down the DAG and hides irrelevant information I don't want in that moment like all the small "commit" commits. If for some reason I find a bug or issue in some code, I may need to drill down into specific small commits including the "commit" commits, and I have that ability because all those commits are still in the DAG.
omnipath 4y ago
Huh? You only rebase when you're either: * Trying to shorten commit history * Trying to merge feature branches together (main or other feature branches) * Trying to remove feature branches None of which are necessary in a lot of development models. If you have that many feature branches that you have to rebase constantly, it doesn't sound like feature branches as a concept are properly understood. The idea behind feature branching is one of 2 models: 1) either the main branch always works, and development is done in a feature branch, only to be rebased into main when development, testing, and sign off occurred, or 2) serious bug fixes occur outside the main branch, to be re-incorporated back into the main branch once it's been proven to be effective. The 1st model should only require a rebase when the feature is complete. The 2nd model MAY require a couple of rebasing, dependent on how extensive the bug fixes are, and how fast the main branch is moving along, but not to the point where constant interactively rebasing your branches is the norm.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  If you're writing a local stack of commits, you need to do an interactive rebase to edit the commits in the middle. You can't just check out and amend earlier commits in the stack, since git has a branch-first rather than commit-first model (one of its biggest UI failures).
  - omnipath 4y ago
    No, I don't. Again, this seems to be a personal design/preference rather than a behavior git is forcing upon you, which is my point (This isn't a git issue, this is a development workflow that seems needlessly over complicated). When I do development locally, I only commit changes I want to keep. If there is something wrong, or code that needs to be modified, I make those changes, and then commit. When the work is done, if pressed upon me by the team, I rebase the local commits to a single commit before submitting a merge request.
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      It's the same development workflow used by the Linux kernel? You know? The project that Git was invented for?