15 ms·

Is anyone else irked by Forbes' need to use a "revenge of the nerds" picture there? I feel like the SOPA argument is inherently skewed for most Americans, and

by d_r 15y ago

Is anyone else irked by Forbes' need to use a "revenge of the nerds" picture there? I feel like the SOPA argument is inherently skewed for most Americans, and it is bitterly unfair. Pro side: "we're stopping evil foreign counterfeiters, we're helping save American jobs, we're looking out for your safety." Con side: "complicated sounding tech mumbo jumbo, this will break the internet, and some references to Libya" Which side would you support if you didn't know any better? SOPA affects more than just the "nerds." How can the messaging be improved? How can it be made more compelling to resonate more with laypeople? Why aren't the "influential" people focusing on the message?

celoyd 15y ago
How can the messaging be improved? How can it be made more compelling to resonate more with laypeople? Explain SOPA as (1) censorship and (2) a heavy burden on legitimate business. These are honest ways of describing it in everyday terms, and at least one of those points should resonate with almost any American, whatever their political identity. Given the time to lay out a clearer case, explain that even if you agree with some of the intentions behind SOPA, it’s unlikely to be effective at stopping piracy. If passed, it would probably have to be at least partly rolled back. And explain that the kind of highly creative, small-time artists whom people instinctively want to defend are, in general, hurt by draconian IP policy. I think this is realistic and counteracts the impression that people who object to SOPA are all Professor Frink.
- ericb 15y ago
  Censorship is the wrong approach. Our current regime is anti-civil liberty (free speech included). You need to use the right language against them. SOPA regulations will increase the size of our government, cost millions of jobs, and billions of dollars in market value, while destroying America's technological edge. The legislation hurts small businesses(how can they have blog comments without being sued under SOPA). Also, you need to find a way to call the bill a tax increase.
  - evolve2k 15y ago
    SOPA 'Technology Tax' will push innovation offshore.
rythie 15y ago
Yes. This is not about some geeks with a minor website, it's about a multi-trillion dollar [1] industry being sabotaged by some old school media companies that can't adapt to the new world. What's more, what they want to do won't even solve their problem. [1] Ok, I don't know how big the internet industry, but no-one else seems to know either, and worldwide it's probably in that ballpark - and most likely everyone will be affected.
- astrodust 15y ago
  I've heard piracy costs the world economy 18 billion jobs and $200 trillion in lost revenue, so you're probably in the right ball-park.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - PakG1 15y ago
    The usual way for calculating those numbers has faulty assumptions. It assumes that price of software pirated equals amount of revenue lost. It also assumes that if piracy were absolutely not possible, the customer would be willing and able to pay full price for the software. Both assumptions rest on shaky foundations.
    - henrikschroder 15y ago
      The most important point is that the money people "save" by not spending it on software or music or movies, gets spent somewhere else in the economy. For the media industry to get a few billion dollars more of revenue, other industries have to get a few billion dollars less of revenue, which in turn leads to a loss of jobs. The amount of disposable income in a country doesn't magically increase whenever some actors on the market want it to.
- teyc 15y ago
  The issue at hand isn't businesses being sabotaged, but rather , nobody wants the world to go back to ironcurtains being drawn and government has the monopoly on truth.
kn0thing 15y ago
I agree. This is why I'll be dressed more like a businessman than a nerd, like the last time: https://plus.google.com/113164038788726940319/posts/ab9eFgmovJ1 https://plus.google.com/113164038788726940319/posts/ab9eFgmo...
- invalidOrTaken 15y ago
  Would you consider open-sourcing the preparation of your address? You'd still retain full control of what you actually say (how would anyone stop you?) but you could potentially have a lot of very sharp researchers/designers/copywriters (hilariously enough, I suspect pure programming skills would be the least useful here) going over every inch of it and providing statistics, infographics, drawings, suggestions, etc. Between HN and /r/SOPA, it could very well be helpful.
  - kn0thing 15y ago
    I tried this with a Google doc on /r/technology before my last trip to DC and it failed miserably, but I'd love to try again. http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/meg8w/im_hoping_to_testify_before_congress_on_thursday/ http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/meg8w/im_hoping_...
    - pvarangot 15y ago
      I know your personal convictions in crowdsourcing this kind of stuff may be completely opposed to my recommendations... but please consider contacting specialists who you may know by their contribution to social sites instead of relying on crowdsourcing. It's my belief that the true power of online social communities rely on the kind of people that wouldn't interact with each other if it not where because of the internet. I particularly think that for example tptacek or trotsky (the HN user, however she/he has himself called as in meatspace eludes me) would be interesting people, where I in your position, to discuss this with at least briefly. I myself have certain first hand experience with internet protocols, information security, and left leaning politics, and my arguments would look like crayon written babbling compared to what they may come up with in a discussion about SOPA.
zemo 15y ago
How can the messaging be improved? How can it be made more compelling to resonate more with laypeople? The major social networks could protest by temporarily disabling the profiles of politicians that support SOPA. Might be a good precursor to a larger voluntary blackout. edit: hmm, downvotes. Would anyone care to elaborate on why such a protest would be a bad idea?
- khafra 15y ago
  Put yourself in the shoes of a politician. You're an elderly alpha male; you don't understand the internet but you feel vaguely threatened by it. Now, the internet attacks you. You personally. It shuts down some "profile" thing your staffers set up. How do you react?
zerostar07 15y ago
Tell them that if SOPA passes, socialist European countries will be more free than America.
- chunkyslink 15y ago
  They are already. They dont care about that.
  - zerostar07 15y ago
    With euro bashing in the agenda* I thought it would be a popular argument *: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808044,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808044,00.h...
urza 15y ago
I would start the message by stressing that the SOPA WONT stop piracy. A 13 y old kid can bypass the name-to-IP problem in just about two minutes.
- biff 15y ago
  While true, I'd worry that arguing this point carries the risk of shifting the discussion away from "Should the U.S. begin censoring the Internet?" to "How can the U.S. effectively censor the Internet?"
pilif 15y ago
Tell them that if SOPA passes, there might very well be no more YouTube, no more Facebook, no more Tumblr.
- TheSOB88 15y ago
  I think that is what they want.
jkeel 15y ago
The usage of "nerds" by several of the US Representatives bothers me a lot. It's already putting up a wall and does invoke the "revenge of the nerds" picture. My wife (who is not in tech.) even said, "at least we know where all the jocks and bullies went after graduation, they became senators and congressmen". While her statement was mainly joking, I feel she does hit on a point. That point is that they are further portraying the negativity to education that we see a lot in the US.

by d_r 15y ago

celoyd 15y ago

How can the messaging be improved? How can it be made more compelling to resonate more with laypeople? Explain SOPA as (1) censorship and (2) a heavy burden on legitimate business. These are honest ways of describing it in everyday terms, and at least one of those points should resonate with almost any American, whatever their political identity. Given the time to lay out a clearer case, explain that even if you agree with some of the intentions behind SOPA, it’s unlikely to be effective at stopping piracy. If passed, it would probably have to be at least partly rolled back. And explain that the kind of highly creative, small-time artists whom people instinctively want to defend are, in general, hurt by draconian IP policy. I think this is realistic and counteracts the impression that people who object to SOPA are all Professor Frink.

ericb 15y ago
Censorship is the wrong approach. Our current regime is anti-civil liberty (free speech included). You need to use the right language against them. SOPA regulations will increase the size of our government, cost millions of jobs, and billions of dollars in market value, while destroying America's technological edge. The legislation hurts small businesses(how can they have blog comments without being sued under SOPA). Also, you need to find a way to call the bill a tax increase.
- evolve2k 15y ago
  SOPA 'Technology Tax' will push innovation offshore.

rythie 15y ago

Yes. This is not about some geeks with a minor website, it's about a multi-trillion dollar [1] industry being sabotaged by some old school media companies that can't adapt to the new world. What's more, what they want to do won't even solve their problem. [1] Ok, I don't know how big the internet industry, but no-one else seems to know either, and worldwide it's probably in that ballpark - and most likely everyone will be affected.

astrodust 15y ago
I've heard piracy costs the world economy 18 billion jobs and $200 trillion in lost revenue, so you're probably in the right ball-park.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- PakG1 15y ago
  The usual way for calculating those numbers has faulty assumptions. It assumes that price of software pirated equals amount of revenue lost. It also assumes that if piracy were absolutely not possible, the customer would be willing and able to pay full price for the software. Both assumptions rest on shaky foundations.
  - henrikschroder 15y ago
    The most important point is that the money people "save" by not spending it on software or music or movies, gets spent somewhere else in the economy. For the media industry to get a few billion dollars more of revenue, other industries have to get a few billion dollars less of revenue, which in turn leads to a loss of jobs. The amount of disposable income in a country doesn't magically increase whenever some actors on the market want it to.
teyc 15y ago
The issue at hand isn't businesses being sabotaged, but rather , nobody wants the world to go back to ironcurtains being drawn and government has the monopoly on truth.

kn0thing 15y ago

I agree. This is why I'll be dressed more like a businessman than a nerd, like the last time: https://plus.google.com/113164038788726940319/posts/ab9eFgmovJ1 https://plus.google.com/113164038788726940319/posts/ab9eFgmo...

invalidOrTaken 15y ago
Would you consider open-sourcing the preparation of your address? You'd still retain full control of what you actually say (how would anyone stop you?) but you could potentially have a lot of very sharp researchers/designers/copywriters (hilariously enough, I suspect pure programming skills would be the least useful here) going over every inch of it and providing statistics, infographics, drawings, suggestions, etc. Between HN and /r/SOPA, it could very well be helpful.
- kn0thing 15y ago
  I tried this with a Google doc on /r/technology before my last trip to DC and it failed miserably, but I'd love to try again. http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/meg8w/im_hoping_to_testify_before_congress_on_thursday/ http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/meg8w/im_hoping_...
  - pvarangot 15y ago
    I know your personal convictions in crowdsourcing this kind of stuff may be completely opposed to my recommendations... but please consider contacting specialists who you may know by their contribution to social sites instead of relying on crowdsourcing. It's my belief that the true power of online social communities rely on the kind of people that wouldn't interact with each other if it not where because of the internet. I particularly think that for example tptacek or trotsky (the HN user, however she/he has himself called as in meatspace eludes me) would be interesting people, where I in your position, to discuss this with at least briefly. I myself have certain first hand experience with internet protocols, information security, and left leaning politics, and my arguments would look like crayon written babbling compared to what they may come up with in a discussion about SOPA.

zemo 15y ago

How can the messaging be improved? How can it be made more compelling to resonate more with laypeople? The major social networks could protest by temporarily disabling the profiles of politicians that support SOPA. Might be a good precursor to a larger voluntary blackout. edit: hmm, downvotes. Would anyone care to elaborate on why such a protest would be a bad idea?

khafra 15y ago
Put yourself in the shoes of a politician. You're an elderly alpha male; you don't understand the internet but you feel vaguely threatened by it. Now, the internet attacks you. You personally. It shuts down some "profile" thing your staffers set up. How do you react?

zerostar07 15y ago

Tell them that if SOPA passes, socialist European countries will be more free than America.

chunkyslink 15y ago
They are already. They dont care about that.
- zerostar07 15y ago
  With euro bashing in the agenda* I thought it would be a popular argument *: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808044,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808044,00.h...

urza 15y ago

I would start the message by stressing that the SOPA WONT stop piracy. A 13 y old kid can bypass the name-to-IP problem in just about two minutes.

biff 15y ago
While true, I'd worry that arguing this point carries the risk of shifting the discussion away from "Should the U.S. begin censoring the Internet?" to "How can the U.S. effectively censor the Internet?"

pilif 15y ago

Tell them that if SOPA passes, there might very well be no more YouTube, no more Facebook, no more Tumblr.

TheSOB88 15y ago
I think that is what they want.

jkeel 15y ago

The usage of "nerds" by several of the US Representatives bothers me a lot. It's already putting up a wall and does invoke the "revenge of the nerds" picture. My wife (who is not in tech.) even said, "at least we know where all the jocks and bullies went after graduation, they became senators and congressmen". While her statement was mainly joking, I feel she does hit on a point. That point is that they are further portraying the negativity to education that we see a lot in the US.