4 ms·

A Witch Trial at the Legal Aid Society

10 points by mckern 4y ago

pmdulaney 4y ago
This is not a new story -- it's from July 2021 -- but what a searing indictment of the leftist elite in New York! Can you be a conservative and yet totally condemn the atrocities of January 6th? Yes, you can -- and I do. Can you as a sane liberal condemn the abuses described in this article? Yes, you can and you should -- though indeed the price will be higher because the left has much more societal power than the right and metes out its punishment mercilessly. But if we all stand up to this evil tide we may just cause it to recede. The path forward is NOT to "flag" this article or my comment. It is to let ideas flow.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  I anticipate that you will be voted down (though I might be wrong). For your edification, the line that probably did it is this: > the left has much more societal power than the right If we're speaking about the US (and we are), this is so far from a realistic view that no one will take you seriously for espousing it. Even if you believe this, I would recommend that you hold back on stating it in discussions like this. If the US left existed meaningfully at all (it doesn't, we are an incredibly niche group), we would have universal healthcare, a minimum wage indexed to inflation, bankers would have gone to jail over 2008, and thousands of other things that have demonstrably not materialized. Hell, the Democratic (supposedly the "left" party in our rigged system) president recently forced a contract on union railroad workers against their will. This is just about as right-wing/pro-capital as a policy can be without calling for a formal return to serfdom.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    If you define "left" as "political movement that represents the interests of workers", then yes, the American "left" is a bad joke. But pmdulaney was referring to a very different coalition in his usage of the term.
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    I have worked with Congressional Progressive Caucus affiliated representatives, but this "No True Scotsman" of Left is ignoring the OP's point. Relatively, us in the DNC are to the left of the GOP. End of story. We are not Far Left like a Communist Party, but we 100% are a coalition between Center Left-Center. And it pains me to say as a Progressive, but our movement has absolutely been hijacked by the "elite". There's a good article about it in the Harper Mag (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37628920/radical-giving-october-2021/ https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37628920/rad...) and I have definetly seen this in my network of friends who work in the Media, Government, Law, VC, and Tech (3rd generation upper middle class/upper class, attended the same 20 universities, went to the same 200 high schools, 60-40 White-Asian). If you're from a working class Black, White, Latino, Asian, Indigenous backgroud, you don't have the in group network to leverage the levers of power. And any activist organization that wants to help the working class ends up having to kowtow to donors who always fit the archetype above. That said, this 100% is happening in the GOP as well. Among their network of staffers and journalists, it's the exact same architype as above except more like 80-20 White-Asian. At the end of the day, Bari Weiss, Carl Tucker, Rachel Maddow, $insertJournalistHere are all different sides of the same coin.
    - ElevenLathe 4y ago
      OK maybe if the Democratic Party and all liberal media institutions count as "The Left," then you can say they have societal power. This is a crazy statement because, as I cited, these people being in power never leads to any leftist reforms and is mainly just more of the same pro-capital cronyism as when Republicans are in charge. There is essentially no daylight between the parties on economic issues of substance. Instead they pretend to differentiate by adopting increasingly radical social policies. It won't be /good/ exactly when President DeSantos signs the Freedom To Learn Act requiring all schoolchildren to carry sidearms, but it is inevitable when "the left" (your definition) fight on this ground instead of on economic issues.
  - pmdulaney 4y ago
    As things stand now, 6 hours later, I am at +3 votes! About the best I ever do. I am surprised too. You are right in saying that they left has not yet gotten everything they want with respect to healthcare, minimum wage, college tuition, etc. But the inexorable trend seems to be that we become more of a welfare state year by year. But I'm referring more to the power of the left to cancel those who dare to disagree with their pronouncements. It is on that score that I think 95% of the American public should be in agreement: Freedom of speech, not just a constitutional right which prevents government reprisals but a rich cultural value, is something that needs to be protected and nurtured.
    - ElevenLathe 4y ago
      That's what I get for making predictions! What pronouncements do you mean? Who in the left is making them? What does it mean to cancel someone? I guess you mean things like a celebrity saying something unsavory and then a fan campaign on Twitter getting them written off of a show? I can't say how I understand that to have anything to do with political economy (except in that literally everything happening on the planet does) and definitely not the left. Also, my understanding is that being written off of a show is on the harsher end of things that have been called "being cancelled". Most are really just instances where somebody has had something (or lots of things) mean written about them. By this measure, I was cancelled several times on LiveJournal in middle school, Nixon was cancelled repeatedly in hundreds of newspapers, and Ea-nasir was cancelled in a clay tablet in like 1700 BCE. Anyway, this kind of stuff hardly seems to matter at all, and I can't find any way to connect it to leftism. Or do I misunderstand?
      - pmdulaney 4y ago
        The Yale Halloween controversy involved a couple who were cancelled in a way that it would be disingenuous to describe as hardly mattering at all: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-intolerance-of-student-activism-at-yale/414810/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new... For me the most illuminating cancellation was that of Brendan Eich, inventor of JavaScript and co-founder of Mozilla, in 2014. He was forced to resign as CEO of Mozilla because someone unearthed that he had made a $1000 donation in support of California's Proposition 8 of 2008, the California Marriage Protection Act, which was approved by the voters. It was upheld in State court but was overturned by a federal court. https://www.businessinsider.com/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-controversy-2014-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-controver...
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Followup: It does appear that she lost her suit against the legal aid society.
  - peanutcrisis 4y ago
    She did not lose her lawsuit against the legal aid society. However, her lawsuit was dismissed. Perhaps the actions of the legal aid society doesn't meet the bar for indictment of any sorts. Regardless, it does not change the fact that the unsubstantiated statements made by the legal aid society against her is premised on an illiberal ideology, with clear intent to smear her reputation and oppress her point of view.

10 points by mckern 4y ago

This is not a new story -- it's from July 2021 -- but what a searing indictment of the leftist elite in New York! Can you be a conservative and yet totally condemn the atrocities of January 6th? Yes, you can -- and I do. Can you as a sane liberal condemn the abuses described in this article? Yes, you can and you should -- though indeed the price will be higher because the left has much more societal power than the right and metes out its punishment mercilessly. But if we all stand up to this evil tide we may just cause it to recede. The path forward is NOT to "flag" this article or my comment. It is to let ideas flow.

ElevenLathe 4y ago
I anticipate that you will be voted down (though I might be wrong). For your edification, the line that probably did it is this: > the left has much more societal power than the right If we're speaking about the US (and we are), this is so far from a realistic view that no one will take you seriously for espousing it. Even if you believe this, I would recommend that you hold back on stating it in discussions like this. If the US left existed meaningfully at all (it doesn't, we are an incredibly niche group), we would have universal healthcare, a minimum wage indexed to inflation, bankers would have gone to jail over 2008, and thousands of other things that have demonstrably not materialized. Hell, the Democratic (supposedly the "left" party in our rigged system) president recently forced a contract on union railroad workers against their will. This is just about as right-wing/pro-capital as a policy can be without calling for a formal return to serfdom.
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  If you define "left" as "political movement that represents the interests of workers", then yes, the American "left" is a bad joke. But pmdulaney was referring to a very different coalition in his usage of the term.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  I have worked with Congressional Progressive Caucus affiliated representatives, but this "No True Scotsman" of Left is ignoring the OP's point. Relatively, us in the DNC are to the left of the GOP. End of story. We are not Far Left like a Communist Party, but we 100% are a coalition between Center Left-Center. And it pains me to say as a Progressive, but our movement has absolutely been hijacked by the "elite". There's a good article about it in the Harper Mag (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37628920/radical-giving-october-2021/ https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37628920/rad...) and I have definetly seen this in my network of friends who work in the Media, Government, Law, VC, and Tech (3rd generation upper middle class/upper class, attended the same 20 universities, went to the same 200 high schools, 60-40 White-Asian). If you're from a working class Black, White, Latino, Asian, Indigenous backgroud, you don't have the in group network to leverage the levers of power. And any activist organization that wants to help the working class ends up having to kowtow to donors who always fit the archetype above. That said, this 100% is happening in the GOP as well. Among their network of staffers and journalists, it's the exact same architype as above except more like 80-20 White-Asian. At the end of the day, Bari Weiss, Carl Tucker, Rachel Maddow, $insertJournalistHere are all different sides of the same coin.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    OK maybe if the Democratic Party and all liberal media institutions count as "The Left," then you can say they have societal power. This is a crazy statement because, as I cited, these people being in power never leads to any leftist reforms and is mainly just more of the same pro-capital cronyism as when Republicans are in charge. There is essentially no daylight between the parties on economic issues of substance. Instead they pretend to differentiate by adopting increasingly radical social policies. It won't be /good/ exactly when President DeSantos signs the Freedom To Learn Act requiring all schoolchildren to carry sidearms, but it is inevitable when "the left" (your definition) fight on this ground instead of on economic issues.
- pmdulaney 4y ago
  As things stand now, 6 hours later, I am at +3 votes! About the best I ever do. I am surprised too. You are right in saying that they left has not yet gotten everything they want with respect to healthcare, minimum wage, college tuition, etc. But the inexorable trend seems to be that we become more of a welfare state year by year. But I'm referring more to the power of the left to cancel those who dare to disagree with their pronouncements. It is on that score that I think 95% of the American public should be in agreement: Freedom of speech, not just a constitutional right which prevents government reprisals but a rich cultural value, is something that needs to be protected and nurtured.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    That's what I get for making predictions! What pronouncements do you mean? Who in the left is making them? What does it mean to cancel someone? I guess you mean things like a celebrity saying something unsavory and then a fan campaign on Twitter getting them written off of a show? I can't say how I understand that to have anything to do with political economy (except in that literally everything happening on the planet does) and definitely not the left. Also, my understanding is that being written off of a show is on the harsher end of things that have been called "being cancelled". Most are really just instances where somebody has had something (or lots of things) mean written about them. By this measure, I was cancelled several times on LiveJournal in middle school, Nixon was cancelled repeatedly in hundreds of newspapers, and Ea-nasir was cancelled in a clay tablet in like 1700 BCE. Anyway, this kind of stuff hardly seems to matter at all, and I can't find any way to connect it to leftism. Or do I misunderstand?
    - pmdulaney 4y ago
      The Yale Halloween controversy involved a couple who were cancelled in a way that it would be disingenuous to describe as hardly mattering at all: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-intolerance-of-student-activism-at-yale/414810/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new... For me the most illuminating cancellation was that of Brendan Eich, inventor of JavaScript and co-founder of Mozilla, in 2014. He was forced to resign as CEO of Mozilla because someone unearthed that he had made a $1000 donation in support of California's Proposition 8 of 2008, the California Marriage Protection Act, which was approved by the voters. It was upheld in State court but was overturned by a federal court. https://www.businessinsider.com/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-controversy-2014-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-controver...
amanaplanacanal 4y ago
Followup: It does appear that she lost her suit against the legal aid society.
- peanutcrisis 4y ago
  She did not lose her lawsuit against the legal aid society. However, her lawsuit was dismissed. Perhaps the actions of the legal aid society doesn't meet the bar for indictment of any sorts. Regardless, it does not change the fact that the unsubstantiated statements made by the legal aid society against her is premised on an illiberal ideology, with clear intent to smear her reputation and oppress her point of view.