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While I agree with you, your last paragraph is just non sense. What's specifically bad? Honestly, if you ask this question you're shouting out that you have no

While I agree with you, your last paragraph is just non sense. What's specifically bad? Honestly, if you ask this question you're shouting out that you have no idea what today's iran (or most of the muslim countries) are like. Quite frankly, visit iran and see for yourself. A word of advice though: if you happen to be a woman, I would recommend taking my word for granted instead. Just my advice.

dextorious 15y ago
"""While I agree with you, your last paragraph is just non sense. What's specifically bad? Honestly, if you ask this question you're shouting out that you have no idea what today's iran (or most of the muslim countries) are like.""" You don't get to judge Iran as "bad in general" by your standards, though. You only get to judge Iran as "bad for you", by your standards. If you want to judge Iran as "bad in general", you'd have to also show that the people of Iran don't want to live like they do. Because if they DO want to live like they do (which I assure you it's the case in general), then there's nothing bad about Iran. They just live in a way that you happen to disagree with. They never came to tell you how to live YOUR life, though.
- skeptical 15y ago
  I'm sorry, if I'm Iranian myself does your reply still applies? Just wondering. I'm tired of this political correctness, it's so 90's. But it will take more than a couple of downvotes to shut me up. This "everybody has the right to their way of living" is getting old and stupid. Have you ever visited Iran? I find it interesting that when I talk about this subject with people from muslim countries, they understand me very well and mostly agree with me, while most westerns prefer to paint everything with fairy-tale colors and say that they are 'tolerant' to every culture. Anyway, your comment is almost semantically null. Why wouldn't it be obvious that anyone's judgement has whatever credibility you want to give it? Furthermore, By assuming that everything is subjective you're basically stating that you won't dare to stand for any opinion of yours.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    """I'm sorry, if I'm Iranian myself does your reply still applies? Just wondering.""" Yeah, it totally still applies. You can find dissents in any country. And, btw, you are not. Here's an older comment of yours on HN: """I'm from a country way more developed than iran in technological/scientific terms""". """This "everybody has the right to their way of living" is getting old and stupid."""" Really? Sorry, but I don't find the "let's demonize them, force them to our own way of living, and basically use it as a pretext for invading their country and steering their natural resources / political personnel our way" any more modern or wiser... """Have you ever visited Iran?""" No, but I have visited other countries in the region of which the same are said. """I find it interesting that when I talk about this subject with people from muslim countries, they understand me very well and mostly agree with me""" You are probably talking to the wrong persons from those countries. Maybe mainly people that immigrated because they wanted to live differently, i.e huge selection bias? """Anyway, your comment is almost semantically null. Why wouldn't it be obvious that anyone's judgement has whatever credibility you want to give it? Furthermore, By assuming that everything is subjective you're basically stating that you won't dare to stand for any opinion of yours""". I haven't said that "everything is subjective". I said that I respect the right of societies to live how they like over the right of any outsider to force them otherwise, especially if the outsider is a big mean war machine. In re: objective/subjective etc, I said that you don't liking how people in Iran live just means Iran is subjectively bad for you. I added that if the majority of Iranians didn't like how they live, then Iran would be objectively bad.
    - skeptical 15y ago
      I'm not stating I am Iranian (I'm not) just trying to point out that you jump into quick conclusions about others' judgements on Iran. And that you would most likely not do it if you knew in advance that the person you're talking to is an iranian citizen. """ Really? Sorry, but I don't find the "let's demonize them, force them to our own way of living, and basically use it as a pretext for invading their country and steering their natural resources / political personnel our way" any more modern or wiser... """ 1. For the record I do think 'their way of living' is rather barbarian. Not that all of them would choose to live the way they do if they had the choice. But stoning a women to death because of showing a leg is a rather barbarian thing to do, just my opinion I guess. But where did I call to 'force our own way of living' or 'invading their country'? I don't recall I defended that. """ You are probably talking to the wrong persons from those countries. Maybe mainly people that immigrated because they wanted to live differently, i.e huge selection bias? """ Maybe that's the case, I won't deny that. But heck, that they had to run away from their country for such reasons, doesn't that tell a bigger story per se? I recall you saying that they have the right to live their lives the way they want. But then you point out people that didn't haven't that right. I'm starting to get confused about your opinion, no irony nor sarcasm intended. "objective/subjective etc, I said that you don't liking how people in Iran live just means Iran is subjectively bad for you. I added that if the majority of Iranians didn't like how they live, then Iran would be objectively bad." Which is pretty obviously the case. Don't expect very informative surveys where saying "I'm not religious anymore" might be enough to get you killed.
- Permit 15y ago
  "Because if they DO want to live like they do (which I assure you it's the case in general), then there's nothing bad about Iran. They just live in a way that you happen to disagree with. They never came to tell you how to live YOUR life, though." We're not telling them how to live their lives. But if their government has a law in place requiring the Hijab, would you not agree that individual citizens don't have the liberty of choosing how they want to live their life either? (Note: I'm not saying that America should invade and spread Western ideals, but I do take issue with the notion that people want to live a certain way if there are laws in place forcing them to live that way.)

dextorious 15y ago

"""While I agree with you, your last paragraph is just non sense. What's specifically bad? Honestly, if you ask this question you're shouting out that you have no idea what today's iran (or most of the muslim countries) are like.""" You don't get to judge Iran as "bad in general" by your standards, though. You only get to judge Iran as "bad for you", by your standards. If you want to judge Iran as "bad in general", you'd have to also show that the people of Iran don't want to live like they do. Because if they DO want to live like they do (which I assure you it's the case in general), then there's nothing bad about Iran. They just live in a way that you happen to disagree with. They never came to tell you how to live YOUR life, though.

skeptical 15y ago
I'm sorry, if I'm Iranian myself does your reply still applies? Just wondering. I'm tired of this political correctness, it's so 90's. But it will take more than a couple of downvotes to shut me up. This "everybody has the right to their way of living" is getting old and stupid. Have you ever visited Iran? I find it interesting that when I talk about this subject with people from muslim countries, they understand me very well and mostly agree with me, while most westerns prefer to paint everything with fairy-tale colors and say that they are 'tolerant' to every culture. Anyway, your comment is almost semantically null. Why wouldn't it be obvious that anyone's judgement has whatever credibility you want to give it? Furthermore, By assuming that everything is subjective you're basically stating that you won't dare to stand for any opinion of yours.
- dextorious 15y ago
  """I'm sorry, if I'm Iranian myself does your reply still applies? Just wondering.""" Yeah, it totally still applies. You can find dissents in any country. And, btw, you are not. Here's an older comment of yours on HN: """I'm from a country way more developed than iran in technological/scientific terms""". """This "everybody has the right to their way of living" is getting old and stupid."""" Really? Sorry, but I don't find the "let's demonize them, force them to our own way of living, and basically use it as a pretext for invading their country and steering their natural resources / political personnel our way" any more modern or wiser... """Have you ever visited Iran?""" No, but I have visited other countries in the region of which the same are said. """I find it interesting that when I talk about this subject with people from muslim countries, they understand me very well and mostly agree with me""" You are probably talking to the wrong persons from those countries. Maybe mainly people that immigrated because they wanted to live differently, i.e huge selection bias? """Anyway, your comment is almost semantically null. Why wouldn't it be obvious that anyone's judgement has whatever credibility you want to give it? Furthermore, By assuming that everything is subjective you're basically stating that you won't dare to stand for any opinion of yours""". I haven't said that "everything is subjective". I said that I respect the right of societies to live how they like over the right of any outsider to force them otherwise, especially if the outsider is a big mean war machine. In re: objective/subjective etc, I said that you don't liking how people in Iran live just means Iran is subjectively bad for you. I added that if the majority of Iranians didn't like how they live, then Iran would be objectively bad.
  - skeptical 15y ago
    I'm not stating I am Iranian (I'm not) just trying to point out that you jump into quick conclusions about others' judgements on Iran. And that you would most likely not do it if you knew in advance that the person you're talking to is an iranian citizen. """ Really? Sorry, but I don't find the "let's demonize them, force them to our own way of living, and basically use it as a pretext for invading their country and steering their natural resources / political personnel our way" any more modern or wiser... """ 1. For the record I do think 'their way of living' is rather barbarian. Not that all of them would choose to live the way they do if they had the choice. But stoning a women to death because of showing a leg is a rather barbarian thing to do, just my opinion I guess. But where did I call to 'force our own way of living' or 'invading their country'? I don't recall I defended that. """ You are probably talking to the wrong persons from those countries. Maybe mainly people that immigrated because they wanted to live differently, i.e huge selection bias? """ Maybe that's the case, I won't deny that. But heck, that they had to run away from their country for such reasons, doesn't that tell a bigger story per se? I recall you saying that they have the right to live their lives the way they want. But then you point out people that didn't haven't that right. I'm starting to get confused about your opinion, no irony nor sarcasm intended. "objective/subjective etc, I said that you don't liking how people in Iran live just means Iran is subjectively bad for you. I added that if the majority of Iranians didn't like how they live, then Iran would be objectively bad." Which is pretty obviously the case. Don't expect very informative surveys where saying "I'm not religious anymore" might be enough to get you killed.
Permit 15y ago
"Because if they DO want to live like they do (which I assure you it's the case in general), then there's nothing bad about Iran. They just live in a way that you happen to disagree with. They never came to tell you how to live YOUR life, though." We're not telling them how to live their lives. But if their government has a law in place requiring the Hijab, would you not agree that individual citizens don't have the liberty of choosing how they want to live their life either? (Note: I'm not saying that America should invade and spread Western ideals, but I do take issue with the notion that people want to live a certain way if there are laws in place forcing them to live that way.)