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Ask HN: How pivot into a (viable) US Government career in tech?

5 points by voidpointercast 4y ago

As a slightly aged collegeman with a presumptive, future degree in Computer Engineering, I'm not entirely certain if I want to chase the same things as many of my peers. I was flirting with the idea of joining the military and pivoting off of that into something in defense, because frankly, with little social life, and littler desire for riches, work with the government, on problems that could provide that elusive sense of self worth really appealed to me. However, with a recent neurological development, that career may be entirely a wash before it began. And thus I'm back where I started, except now with no idea where to begin. So I'm asking HN: How to kickstart a career in (possibly) defense or an adjacent world without military contacts? I am a US citizen, I have no criminal record.

alexb_ 4y ago
What is the neurological development?
- voidpointercast 4y ago
  Potentially Epilepsy. No sign of it in childhood, or early twenties, but the last two years have been somewhat fun. Symptoms present, to the best of my knowledge as a minor case of JME - minor because as far as I can tell, there's no light sensitivity, and I don't seem seizure prone if I remove alcohol entirely, get sleep, and reduce caffeine to a bare minimum. If it's a brain tumor, I'm done anyway, so none of this matters. Don't think it's this though.
  - alexb_ 4y ago
    Is it written down anywhere? Like have you gone to doctors and gotten it noted? If there's no "proof" then join the military anyways. Air Force is the best way to do this.
    - voidpointercast 4y ago
      It is not, yet somehow technically defrauding the US gov doesn't seem like the best idea in the world as a career starter. Anyway, while I am in excellent shape, I don't have the whole of my twenties to piss away on a whim, so you'll forgive me if I look at all my options first before signing my life away for six years.
      - alexb_ 4y ago
        >It is not, yet somehow technically defrauding the US gov doesn't seem like the best idea in the world as a career starter. If people thought like this there would literally never be another person ever enlisted in the military. Everyone has some sort of neurological "dysfunction" that the outdated military system thinks is world ending. If a doctor doesn't say you have it, it doesn't exist. You'll be fine. >before signing my life away for six years You can sign for 4! Here's the path I'm taking: - Programming job in the Air Force, got free training and experience for 4 years - Either use SkillBridge to get a paid internship with a defense contractor/other large tech company, or immediately go from military to GS - Eventually use the fact that I get 3 years of paid college for free w/ post 9/11 GI bill No matter what you're gonna have to spend 4 years of your life doing something, might as well get guaranteed training/experience + veteran status. If you want to get involved with gov't tech careers military is the way to go IMO. Just make sure you join the Air/Space Force so you actually get to do your job, most people who join other branches regret it. Obviously I'm not trying to say this is the only option, there are probably other paths available, but this is by far the easiest/most common/most "low risk" way of doing things.
        voidpointercast 4y ago
        Weirdly I was considering officer candidacy in a topically relevant career area. Again, I don't know regarding the symptoms yet, especially since when they present - it's pretty damn obvious that something is amiss. Anyway thank you for your remarks, I'd love to hear more even if it's not my path.
thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
Apply at https://www.usajobs.gov/ https://www.usajobs.gov/ It is the official site for US federal government jobs, including civilian jobs in military services / agencies.
S8h94O9emf1x 4y ago
throwaway to speak more freely. FWIW I kicked the tires on this recently and am your age. The government is also big onto "tours of duty" so I think there is little harm in trying it out for a year or two and moving on if you don't like it. Broadly, I think of the space as 3 main categories of "influential" ways to work as a technologist in government: innovation, defense, and policy. I'll start with policy first. You can be the technical subject matter expert for a legislator or within some government agency. Or you can go work for a private firm that attempts to influence different types of policies. I would recommend looking at TechCongress (https://www.techcongress.io https://www.techcongress.io) as a starting point. Travis Moore also runs a tech policy jobs newsletter you can look at in order to get a feel for things. I consider "innovation" to be roles where you're applying modern startup methodologies to government procurement and processes. The classics here are US Digital Service/18F, although you should really consider the US Digital Corps (https://digitalcorps.gsa.gov https://digitalcorps.gsa.gov), a brand-new program designed specifically for new college grads. If this had existed ~2 years ago, I would probably have done this. Some states (California, Colorado) and even individual cities (NYC) have similar programs. The last aspect is defense sector. You will need a Top Secret clearance. This means no major crimes, no major debt, no excessive foreign contacts, no drugs, and potentially a polygraph. That covers both your past and your future. You also will to report all foreign travel and requests may not be approved. You can work for a defense contractor or check out one of the newer "startups" like Anduril or one of the spin-offs like Vannevar Labs. FWIW the people I have talked to who have worked at some of the smaller, more niche contractors loved it even if they couldn't tell me why due to classification. Obviously, you can also "join the military", although this is more complicated than it seems (determining which service, deciding between active/Guard/reserves, choosing officer/warrant/enlisted, technical/non-technical, etc.). You can pull these levers to best fit your personal situation. Be sure to do your homework as there are many pitfalls. For example, you cannot guarantee Cyber with an active-duty Army contract but you can as a part-timer. The service obligations might vary as well. I joined the Army as a reservist and am quite happy with my decision so far but I am still new so don't want to speak with certainty. The last thing to note, at least for Army Cyber, is that the branch is changing extremely quickly: new job roles, shifting cultures, etc. so don't over-index on any particular piece as it could be gone by the time you're out of training. I would not let any self-diagnosed medical conditions eliminate the military from your options if you have it on the brain. Happy to answer more questions here if you have them or offline if you put contact info in your profile.
giaour 4y ago
There are plenty of roles for civilians in defense and other civic functions. Assuming you're in the US, take a look at the US digital corps (basically USDS for recent grads): https://digitalcorps.gsa.gov/ https://digitalcorps.gsa.gov/

voidpointercast 4y ago
Thank you very much, this was exactly what I was looking for. Just In vaguest terms, if you could go over your own route, with no personal details, obviously, I would be appreciative. What barriers existed, what would you prepare for differently, etc.
- thewildginger 4y ago
  I made an account to also reply to this. My first hacker news comment, here we go. These are all good points, and I want to add another good niche. The government research labs need people. The pay is not as good as the private sector, but the desire to work on meaningful projects is aplenty. Batelle is the big one, with smaller labs. It's a complicated bureaucracy, but as a researcher, support staff for projects, or scientist, you don't have to go that route. All the mentioned paths can be hard to start in except the military straight up, but you mentioned other problems with that option. Government labs have projects with clearances and without, and by working for one you can start to build a path to getting a clearance. If you have experience as a SWE you should be able to find a job at one of the many labs all over the country. To clarify, They are mostly DOE. https://nationallabs.org/our-labs/ https://nationallabs.org/our-labs/ https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/national-laboratories https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/national-laboratories I've heard kf SWEs, engineers, and data scientists who started there. Also companies that are government contractors can be a path to breaking into the field like Oracle, IBM, AT&T, and traditional defense MIC companies like Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Northrup Grumman, etc.
- S8h94O9emf1x 4y ago
  I failed in getting into USDS which I attribute to lack of experience (US Digital Corps solved this) so I ended up in a standard private-sector SWE job. Got some exposure to electoral politics and did a tech policy "bootcamp" but realized both weren't for me, at least at the time. During COVID, I decided I wanted to leave the startup world and move into the security field which caused me to revisit the idea of working in government. Decided to join the military as a "cyber" guy to obtain a TS (closest thing in the US to guaranteed full employment) and get access to TRICARE. Landed on commissioning as an Army Reserve Officer. It took several months to get my application together (admittedly, I took my time), 6 months of waiting to go to training (probably COVID related), 6 months of initial training, and 10 months of job specialization training. People might encourage you to direct commission, but it's extremely competitive and I didn't want to wait around only to get denied. Honestly, the biggest barrier is the lack of transparency into the bureaucracy. It's hard to tell who the "point person" is or how you should actually go about doing something. I was lucky to find someone who helped walk me through the process. The biggest learning was that you shouldn't lie, but telling the full truth will fuck you over. I do wish I had joined the military earlier. I was always interested in it but told myself it wasn't compatible with my day job. It's definitely a young person's game and everything you do is based on how long you've been in, so the earlier you can start that clock, the better off you'll be. I would encourage you to think really, really deeply about what is important to you. Easier said than done, I know. You say you don't care about money. Is that really true? Some people think they don't care about money, but then they have a kid or three while look at their friends who do half the work but make 5x, and change their minds. Do you have an idea of where you want to live? Because most military bases and government research facilities are in small towns with few activities for young people. Do you think you can handle the crushing inanity of the federal bureaucracy? Are you okay with going months, or even years, without shipping a project? Just be sure because I know several of people who spent more time getting hired into a federal job than they did at the job itself. If you have more specific questions, I can answer them directly.