5 ms·

Japan also has a stagnant or declining labor pool size.

weatherlite 4y ago
So does the U.S...
sangnoir 4y ago
Yep, a lower-than-replacement birthrate combined with a hostile immigration policy that is against permanency will do that.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  > a hostile immigration policy that is against permanency will do that. Why are you spreading lies? Permanent residency is really, really easy to get in Japan, unlike the US where you have to win a lottery.
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    Wages for SWEs are lower than other comparable countries in Europe, Canada, and APAC (SG, AU, NZ) and Japanese fluency (not a PR requirement but still needed to live in Japan) is hard to acquire. Why deal with the headache of learning a hard to learn language not spoken outside of a handful of islands in the Northern Pacific with a very insular culture when you can become a German or Canadian national for much less effort.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      The things you complain about do not equate to a "hostile immigration policy that is against permanency". SWE wages are lower than the US, yes, but not Europe in my experience. Japanese fluency is not needed for PR or even citizenship (you do need a little ability for naturalization). You don't need to be fluent to live in Japan; most of the expats I know are not fluent at all. German is also a very difficult language to learn, and you won't go far in Germany without it. It's much easier to be English-only in Japan than in Germany, in my experience.
      - alephnerd 4y ago
        I'll copy an earlier comment I made on a separate thread specifically with South Asia in mind, but I've seen similar dynamics in ASEAN as well. Also, I think you are an L1 Japanese speaker. If you're L1 is Indo-European, other Indo-European languages tend to be easier to learn. Why go to Japan (in reality only Tokyo) where median software TC is around $60k [0] when you can go to Canada where median software TC is around $90k [1] and English speaking, let alone other English speaking and relatively easy to immigrate Western countries with large South Asian communities like the UK (95k) [2], Netherlands (87k) [3], Germany (77k) [4], Australia (100k) [5], Norway ($74k) [6], or Singapore (73k) [7]. [0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-tokyo-area https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater... [1] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/canada https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/canada [2] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/united-kingdom https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/united-... [3] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/netherlands https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/netherl... [4] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/germany https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/germany [5] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/australia https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/austral... [6] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/norway https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/norway [7] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/singapore https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/singapo...
        midoridensha 4y ago
        I don't see a huge difference between $60k and $77k for instance, and it all depends on your actual job offers. Regardless, while I don't disagree with your facts, the original claim (not by you) was that Japan had a "hostile immigration policy that is against permanency". This is false, and sounds like a lie in fact, unless the OP just woke up from cryo-sleep after being frozen in 1985. Sure, there are real challenges to working and living in Japan if you're a native English speaker (which I am), but my whole point here is that legally, immigration here is actually very easy, contrary to the anti-Japan posts like the OP's that I frequently see on forums like this one. Immigration policy here is far, far more inviting than the US which claims to be open to immigration, yet has severe limits on visas and green cards and is legally extremely difficult and expensive to emigrate to.
    - 778hbff 4y ago
      That's not what GP was critizising tough.

So does the U.S...

Yep, a lower-than-replacement birthrate combined with a hostile immigration policy that is against permanency will do that.

midoridensha 4y ago
> a hostile immigration policy that is against permanency will do that. Why are you spreading lies? Permanent residency is really, really easy to get in Japan, unlike the US where you have to win a lottery.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Wages for SWEs are lower than other comparable countries in Europe, Canada, and APAC (SG, AU, NZ) and Japanese fluency (not a PR requirement but still needed to live in Japan) is hard to acquire. Why deal with the headache of learning a hard to learn language not spoken outside of a handful of islands in the Northern Pacific with a very insular culture when you can become a German or Canadian national for much less effort.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    The things you complain about do not equate to a "hostile immigration policy that is against permanency". SWE wages are lower than the US, yes, but not Europe in my experience. Japanese fluency is not needed for PR or even citizenship (you do need a little ability for naturalization). You don't need to be fluent to live in Japan; most of the expats I know are not fluent at all. German is also a very difficult language to learn, and you won't go far in Germany without it. It's much easier to be English-only in Japan than in Germany, in my experience.
    - alephnerd 4y ago
      I'll copy an earlier comment I made on a separate thread specifically with South Asia in mind, but I've seen similar dynamics in ASEAN as well. Also, I think you are an L1 Japanese speaker. If you're L1 is Indo-European, other Indo-European languages tend to be easier to learn. Why go to Japan (in reality only Tokyo) where median software TC is around $60k [0] when you can go to Canada where median software TC is around $90k [1] and English speaking, let alone other English speaking and relatively easy to immigrate Western countries with large South Asian communities like the UK (95k) [2], Netherlands (87k) [3], Germany (77k) [4], Australia (100k) [5], Norway ($74k) [6], or Singapore (73k) [7]. [0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-tokyo-area https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater... [1] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/canada https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/canada [2] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/united-kingdom https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/united-... [3] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/netherlands https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/netherl... [4] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/germany https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/germany [5] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/australia https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/austral... [6] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/norway https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/norway [7] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/singapore https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/singapo...
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        I don't see a huge difference between $60k and $77k for instance, and it all depends on your actual job offers. Regardless, while I don't disagree with your facts, the original claim (not by you) was that Japan had a "hostile immigration policy that is against permanency". This is false, and sounds like a lie in fact, unless the OP just woke up from cryo-sleep after being frozen in 1985. Sure, there are real challenges to working and living in Japan if you're a native English speaker (which I am), but my whole point here is that legally, immigration here is actually very easy, contrary to the anti-Japan posts like the OP's that I frequently see on forums like this one. Immigration policy here is far, far more inviting than the US which claims to be open to immigration, yet has severe limits on visas and green cards and is legally extremely difficult and expensive to emigrate to.
  - 778hbff 4y ago
    That's not what GP was critizising tough.