5 ms·

What are the chances there is a repeat of the opioid crisis and in 10-15 years there is an investigation into what went wrong?

stelliosk 4y ago
Some good feedback... not sure why downvoted was a fair enough question?... point was are the long term side effects fully understood before mass circulation? How much lobbying has gone into getting it over the line? Is history going to repeat?
- di456 4y ago
  I didn't downvote but it is a low effort question, that may be why.
rongenre 4y ago
We're more than 20 years into marijuana being legal with no reefer madness.
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vlovich123 4y ago
Why do you say that? Isn’t psilocybin non-addicting? Wouldn’t that be a major difference to the opioid epidemic? I’m not sure I follow the analogy you’re trying to make.
di456 4y ago
There is a rich history already, here's a good starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Sabina https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Sabina
boomboomsubban 4y ago
Near zero. Hallucinogenic mushrooms aren't very addictive, don't have billion dollar companies pushing them, and don't have the same risk of death. It's possible Oregon regrets this for some reason I can't imagine, but a repeat of the opioid crisis isn't a realistic outcome.
- stelliosk 4y ago
  Not addiction or deaths but long term psychological problems. Surely there are companies lobbying... https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/03/us-drugs-magic-mushrooms-wall-street https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/03/us-dru...
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    The article you linked has nothing to do with your assertion of long term psychological problems.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Psychological problems are not comparable to addiction and death, particularly as our current resarch seems to show them solving more problems than they cause. There are always companies that will try to make bank in an emerging market, but the details are different than an entrenched company using their power like in the opioid crisis.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    There is a great need for more research (as a lot has been blocked by prohibition) but early signs indicate psilocybe use would have a net improvement for society for long term psychological problems. But there is certainly risk that it creates a new class of problems. But, people are doing clandestine treatment with psilocybes currently, so it seems unlikely that legalization will find new classes of issues or a higher incidence rate of issues vs relatively-uninformed clandestine use. If there is a concerning issue, we'd expect that we've already seen it, but perhaps underestimated it.
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Maursault 4y ago
Opioid use is 8000 years old, but Morphine was only isolated 219 years ago. Psilocybin was first isolated by Albert Hoffman in 1958. Though mushroom use for religious purposes is known to be at least 6000 years old, I think it is likely that humans have been using them ever since they first stepped into the Americas. There is a big difference between smoking opium and shooting morphine. There is little to no difference between taking a psilocybin pill and eating mushrooms. Have you heard of any mushroom-eater epidemics in the last 6000 years? I think there has been plenty of time for at least one, but you think another 10-15 years will do it?
- w1nst0nsm1th 4y ago
  The opium wars occured because of detrimental effects of opium consumption on chinese population.
say_it_as_it_is 4y ago
It won't be an addiction crisis but possibly a crisis of another kind, perhaps socioeconomic. Mind changes and shifts in priorities of an already disenfranchised youth could deplete the stock of candidates who want to contribute to the capitalist system. The 1960s could be nothing compared to the mid-late 2020s.
- di456 4y ago
  The ability to think independently and outside of the box nurtured by psychedelics actually turned out well for capitalism. It was not good for military recruiting and war support though. The rise in software and hardware innovations that came out of the SF counter culture included Steve Jobs and Apple. He did quite a bit of acid.
sowbug 4y ago
The human body rapidly develops tolerance to tryptamine-based psychedelics (i.e., most of the ones being discussed here). In general, if you take a tryptamine, then taking more won't do anything for at least a couple weeks. (Tolerance isn't all-or-nothing; even if a person has developed it, it's still possible to get a small response with a gigantic dose.) But even if there were no such thing as tolerance, psychedelics aren't pleasant in the day-in-day-out way that a beer after work can be, or that I imagine an opioid would be. They require far too much emotional work. It's typical to take a moderate mushroom dose, and then spend a month or two "integrating" the experience (i.e., figuring out what the heck all those insights mean).

stelliosk 4y ago

Some good feedback... not sure why downvoted was a fair enough question?... point was are the long term side effects fully understood before mass circulation? How much lobbying has gone into getting it over the line? Is history going to repeat?

di456 4y ago
I didn't downvote but it is a low effort question, that may be why.

rongenre 4y ago

We're more than 20 years into marijuana being legal with no reefer madness.

deleted 4y ago

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vlovich123 4y ago

Why do you say that? Isn’t psilocybin non-addicting? Wouldn’t that be a major difference to the opioid epidemic? I’m not sure I follow the analogy you’re trying to make.

di456 4y ago

There is a rich history already, here's a good starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Sabina https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Sabina

boomboomsubban 4y ago

Near zero. Hallucinogenic mushrooms aren't very addictive, don't have billion dollar companies pushing them, and don't have the same risk of death. It's possible Oregon regrets this for some reason I can't imagine, but a repeat of the opioid crisis isn't a realistic outcome.

stelliosk 4y ago
Not addiction or deaths but long term psychological problems. Surely there are companies lobbying... https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/03/us-drugs-magic-mushrooms-wall-street https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/03/us-dru...
- yonaguska 4y ago
  The article you linked has nothing to do with your assertion of long term psychological problems.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Psychological problems are not comparable to addiction and death, particularly as our current resarch seems to show them solving more problems than they cause. There are always companies that will try to make bank in an emerging market, but the details are different than an entrenched company using their power like in the opioid crisis.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  There is a great need for more research (as a lot has been blocked by prohibition) but early signs indicate psilocybe use would have a net improvement for society for long term psychological problems. But there is certainly risk that it creates a new class of problems. But, people are doing clandestine treatment with psilocybes currently, so it seems unlikely that legalization will find new classes of issues or a higher incidence rate of issues vs relatively-uninformed clandestine use. If there is a concerning issue, we'd expect that we've already seen it, but perhaps underestimated it.

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deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Maursault 4y ago

Opioid use is 8000 years old, but Morphine was only isolated 219 years ago. Psilocybin was first isolated by Albert Hoffman in 1958. Though mushroom use for religious purposes is known to be at least 6000 years old, I think it is likely that humans have been using them ever since they first stepped into the Americas. There is a big difference between smoking opium and shooting morphine. There is little to no difference between taking a psilocybin pill and eating mushrooms. Have you heard of any mushroom-eater epidemics in the last 6000 years? I think there has been plenty of time for at least one, but you think another 10-15 years will do it?

w1nst0nsm1th 4y ago
The opium wars occured because of detrimental effects of opium consumption on chinese population.

say_it_as_it_is 4y ago

It won't be an addiction crisis but possibly a crisis of another kind, perhaps socioeconomic. Mind changes and shifts in priorities of an already disenfranchised youth could deplete the stock of candidates who want to contribute to the capitalist system. The 1960s could be nothing compared to the mid-late 2020s.

di456 4y ago
The ability to think independently and outside of the box nurtured by psychedelics actually turned out well for capitalism. It was not good for military recruiting and war support though. The rise in software and hardware innovations that came out of the SF counter culture included Steve Jobs and Apple. He did quite a bit of acid.

sowbug 4y ago

The human body rapidly develops tolerance to tryptamine-based psychedelics (i.e., most of the ones being discussed here). In general, if you take a tryptamine, then taking more won't do anything for at least a couple weeks. (Tolerance isn't all-or-nothing; even if a person has developed it, it's still possible to get a small response with a gigantic dose.) But even if there were no such thing as tolerance, psychedelics aren't pleasant in the day-in-day-out way that a beer after work can be, or that I imagine an opioid would be. They require far too much emotional work. It's typical to take a moderate mushroom dose, and then spend a month or two "integrating" the experience (i.e., figuring out what the heck all those insights mean).