7 ms·

Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the

Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.

rafaelero 4y ago
> But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce Looks like he didn't have to since he still won 3 world cups.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
- fernandotakai 4y ago
  another datapoint regarding pelé: >After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades
IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
LOL. At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer. Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did. EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s. Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete. Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....
- fosk 4y ago
  Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day. More here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusconi-owner-reign-shaped-modern-football-italy-serie-a-champions-league-money https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusc...
- yowzadave 4y ago
  > Look at who won the world cups! Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.
gspetr 4y ago
Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that." https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.com/news/what-they-said-about-pele-1321917 https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.... Alfredo Di Stéfano: "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano. Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups. http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html

rafaelero 4y ago

> But he did not play in Europe where the competition was more fierce Looks like he didn't have to since he still won 3 world cups.

mardifoufs 4y ago
Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more than just that.
fernandotakai 4y ago
another datapoint regarding pelé: >After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have won the award if it was open for them since 1956—the year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed that Pelé would have received the award a record seven times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmarès). The original recipients, however, remain unchanged. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago

LOL. At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for soccer. Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition matches, because that's what the best players did. EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s. Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol, Santos and some other south american teams ran around in CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could actually compete. Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves competition....

fosk 4y ago
Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow in an unprecedented way for the best international players money could buy. It’s not that before players weren’t worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of magnitude or two to that. He also created the first “soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started in the 80s - continues to this day. More here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusconi-owner-reign-shaped-modern-football-italy-serie-a-champions-league-money https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-silvio-berlusc...
yowzadave 4y ago
> Look at who won the world cups! Looking over the winners of the early world cups, I'm trying to square the results with what you've written here (I'm not a soccer watcher): Europe won 5 out of the first 10 world cups (1930-1974); Italy won both the second and third. England won the 1966 cup, which interrupted Pele's run of World Cup wins.

gspetr 4y ago

Former Real Madrid and Hungary star Ferenc Puskás stated: "The greatest player in history was Alfredo Di Stéfano. I refuse to classify Pelé as a player. He was above that." https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.com/news/what-they-said-about-pele-1321917 https://web.archive.org/web/20190627023833/https://www.fifa.... Alfredo Di Stéfano: "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better," Di Stefano told El Colombiano. Di Stefano played over 300 games for Real Madrid, winning eight La Liga titles, and five European Champions Cups. http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/169585.html