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Most small business I've found don't accept credit/debit cards for large transactions and instead want direct (cash) bank transfers because they fear the money

Most small business I've found don't accept credit/debit cards for large transactions and instead want direct (cash) bank transfers because they fear the money going missing or getting a chargeback. This has its only issues as its slow and not very customer friendly. If only there was some kind of virtual cash that could be sent from one party to another almost instantly without an intermediary

35mm 4y ago
Also (at least in the UK & EU) bank transfers are free whereas Stripe fees are around 3%.
bagels 4y ago
My customers are not going to pay in Bitcoin.
- herbst 4y ago
  Did you ask them? My customers usually even ask to pay in crypto. It's surprisingly complicated for people in less fortunate countries to move higher amounts of money without an endless cycle of hoops, fees and waiting.
alephu5 4y ago
The EU are working on something like this, it's like USDC but backed and exchanged by the European Central Bank. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/digital_euro/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago
  A surveillance coin that bureaucrats can seize without a trial or due process! The EU may not be the first to make this.
- markus92 4y ago
  Irrelevant but EU has SEPA Instant Payments which basically resolves GPs issues with bank transfers.
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    Unfortunatelly, this is not really true. You bear all the risk as the merchant, the customers can simply reverse a transaction, repeatedly, without providing a reason, for up to couple months.
Klonoar 4y ago
>If only there was some kind of virtual cash that could be sent from one party to another almost instantly without an intermediary If only such a system wasn't ripe with fraud, get rich quick schemes, and the same general predatory behaviors found in our systems with intermediaries yet lacking the ability for the common user to have some ability to recover when things go wrong. Alas, such a thing does not exist. ;P
- dotancohen 4y ago
  Those problems exist with physical cash. Why should I care that other people engage in fraud with the same currency that I'm using for a legal transaction? Why should I care that other people engage in get rich quick schemes with the same currency that I'm using for a legal transaction?
  - Klonoar 4y ago
    Legal cash is not the thing being discussed here, you don't need to shift the goalposts. ;P
- docflabby 4y ago
  The problem is the intermediaries often add no value or help facilitate the fraud or refuse to help get the money back. I lost £150,000 to a fraudulent account the bank knew about https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/14/i-lost-150000-to-a-fraudulent-account-the-bank-knew-about https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/14/i-lost-150000-... Bank transfer scammers steal £700,000 a day from UK victims https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/28/bank-transfer-scammers-steal-700000-a-day-from-uk-victims https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/28/bank-transfer-...
traceroute66 4y ago
> want direct (cash) bank transfers ... This has its only issues as its slow and not very customer friendly. Actually, there are issues that raise red flags when a business only accepts bank transfers: (a) It raises a GIGANTIC red flag as to why a business was unable to get a merchant account with a card processor. Pretty much any business can get a merchant account with a bit of paperwork (generally not much more paperwork than for opening a bank account). So if a business is refused a merchant account everywhere (including PayPal) then, well ..... (b) At least in Europe, credit card holders gain SIGNIFICANT protection under law. Basically as long as your transaction is over a minimum amount (normally small, e.g. £100/€100), then the card issuer (i.e. bank) is *automatically* equally liable in the event something goes wrong (i.e. goods or services are faulty, are not delivered as promised, are not as advertised or if the trader or retailer goes out of business). This legal protection applies even if the amount you paid on your card was a mere deposit instead of the full amount. (Generally the only caveat here is that you need to pay the merchant directly on their merchant account, not via a pooling intermediary such as Paypal). So actually for most consumers paying for high-value items on credit card is the Right Thing (TM) to do.
- docflabby 4y ago
  In the UK at least try and get building work done or buy a new car with a credit card and see how far you get... Credit cards work great for small transactions for both consumers and businesses, but risks get high for the business (espcially small businesses) for larger transactions.
herbst 4y ago
I am working with people from eastern Europe and west Asia. If they pay me in PayPal it's like 50:50 that the money is frozen for a month or two as fraud protection. Always resolving. 'Normal banking' often is no option at all. I really wish there was a near instant payment method without heavy overregulation so I could do normal business with people from not so fortunate countries.

35mm 4y ago

Also (at least in the UK & EU) bank transfers are free whereas Stripe fees are around 3%.

bagels 4y ago

My customers are not going to pay in Bitcoin.

herbst 4y ago
Did you ask them? My customers usually even ask to pay in crypto. It's surprisingly complicated for people in less fortunate countries to move higher amounts of money without an endless cycle of hoops, fees and waiting.

alephu5 4y ago

The EU are working on something like this, it's like USDC but backed and exchanged by the European Central Bank. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/digital_euro/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...

AlchemistCamp 4y ago
A surveillance coin that bureaucrats can seize without a trial or due process! The EU may not be the first to make this.
markus92 4y ago
Irrelevant but EU has SEPA Instant Payments which basically resolves GPs issues with bank transfers.
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  Unfortunatelly, this is not really true. You bear all the risk as the merchant, the customers can simply reverse a transaction, repeatedly, without providing a reason, for up to couple months.

Klonoar 4y ago

>If only there was some kind of virtual cash that could be sent from one party to another almost instantly without an intermediary If only such a system wasn't ripe with fraud, get rich quick schemes, and the same general predatory behaviors found in our systems with intermediaries yet lacking the ability for the common user to have some ability to recover when things go wrong. Alas, such a thing does not exist. ;P

dotancohen 4y ago
Those problems exist with physical cash. Why should I care that other people engage in fraud with the same currency that I'm using for a legal transaction? Why should I care that other people engage in get rich quick schemes with the same currency that I'm using for a legal transaction?
- Klonoar 4y ago
  Legal cash is not the thing being discussed here, you don't need to shift the goalposts. ;P
docflabby 4y ago
The problem is the intermediaries often add no value or help facilitate the fraud or refuse to help get the money back. I lost £150,000 to a fraudulent account the bank knew about https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/14/i-lost-150000-to-a-fraudulent-account-the-bank-knew-about https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/14/i-lost-150000-... Bank transfer scammers steal £700,000 a day from UK victims https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/28/bank-transfer-scammers-steal-700000-a-day-from-uk-victims https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/28/bank-transfer-...

traceroute66 4y ago

> want direct (cash) bank transfers ... This has its only issues as its slow and not very customer friendly. Actually, there are issues that raise red flags when a business only accepts bank transfers: (a) It raises a GIGANTIC red flag as to why a business was unable to get a merchant account with a card processor. Pretty much any business can get a merchant account with a bit of paperwork (generally not much more paperwork than for opening a bank account). So if a business is refused a merchant account everywhere (including PayPal) then, well ..... (b) At least in Europe, credit card holders gain SIGNIFICANT protection under law. Basically as long as your transaction is over a minimum amount (normally small, e.g. £100/€100), then the card issuer (i.e. bank) is *automatically* equally liable in the event something goes wrong (i.e. goods or services are faulty, are not delivered as promised, are not as advertised or if the trader or retailer goes out of business). This legal protection applies even if the amount you paid on your card was a mere deposit instead of the full amount. (Generally the only caveat here is that you need to pay the merchant directly on their merchant account, not via a pooling intermediary such as Paypal). So actually for most consumers paying for high-value items on credit card is the Right Thing (TM) to do.

docflabby 4y ago
In the UK at least try and get building work done or buy a new car with a credit card and see how far you get... Credit cards work great for small transactions for both consumers and businesses, but risks get high for the business (espcially small businesses) for larger transactions.

herbst 4y ago

I am working with people from eastern Europe and west Asia. If they pay me in PayPal it's like 50:50 that the money is frozen for a month or two as fraud protection. Always resolving. 'Normal banking' often is no option at all. I really wish there was a near instant payment method without heavy overregulation so I could do normal business with people from not so fortunate countries.