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Poe's Law. No one can tell your dumbass joke saying the election is on a Wednesday is a joke. Especially when it's right next to a bot account from eastern Euro

by viro 4y ago

Poe's Law. No one can tell your dumbass joke saying the election is on a Wednesday is a joke. Especially when it's right next to a bot account from eastern Europe that said the same thing.

philwelch 4y ago
I would expect the FBI to be able to tell whether or not that joke is criminal behavior within their legal jurisdiction.
- mhoad 4y ago
  You seem to have some incredibly strong opinions on how you think national security is supposed to work while not seeming to understand even the basic functionality of the role and remit of the FBI. It’s ok to just say you don’t know sometimes.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    The basic functionality of the role and remit of the FBI does not entail helping Twitter enforce its terms of service. They’re supposed to be a law enforcement agency that performs criminal investigations to support federal prosecutors, not a secret police force that engages in extrajudicial measures against political dissidents, though I suppose Fred Hampton and Martin Luther King would have something to say about the latter.
benmmurphy 4y ago
Even if these people were not joking it is not clear that this is illegal. The statutes that try to prevent election misinformation likely violate the first amendment or they may not apply in these specific cases. The FBI should be prosecuting people so these statutes have a chance of being challenged in court and these people have a chance to defend themselves. Either that or twitter should have informed them that the report was originated by the US government. If this information was never leaked then the people effected by the FBI’s secret speech suppression may never have known and would never had a chance to contest it in court.
- philwelch 4y ago
  > The statutes that try to prevent election misinformation Do such statutes even exist? I suspect the answer is no, and that the FBI is just engaging in extralegal, extrajudicial monkeyshines. > If this information was never leaked then the people effected by the FBI’s secret speech suppression may never have known and would never had a chance to contest it in court. From a certain point of view (which seems distressingly popular on HN lately) that’s considered a feature and not a bug.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/election-crimes-and-security https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/sca... > Intentionally deceiving qualified voters to prevent them from voting is voter suppression—and it is a federal crime. > Bad actors use various methods to spread disinformation about voting, such as social media platforms, texting, or peer-to-peer messaging applications on smartphones. They may provide misleading information about the time, manner, or place of voting. This can include inaccurate election dates or false claims about voting qualifications or methods, such as false information suggesting that one may vote by text, which is not allowed in any jurisdiction. > Help defend the right to vote by reporting any suspected instances of voter suppression—especially those received through a private communication channel like texting—to your local FBI field office or at tips.fbi.gov. Guess this is in their purview.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      In that case I’m with benmmurphy: they should be enforcing the law by actually prosecuting people in court (or, to be pedantic, performing arrests and investigations to support a prosecution by a US Attorney), not engaging in extrajudicial monkeyshines.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        I agree with the spirit of this, but the point is this neither extrajudicial nor monkeyshines, nor out of the ordinary, which means this entire discussion has been bamboozled by business as usual, while more interesting controversies have been neglected.

by viro 4y ago

Poe's Law. No one can tell your dumbass joke saying the election is on a Wednesday is a joke. Especially when it's right next to a bot account from eastern Europe that said the same thing.

philwelch 4y ago

I would expect the FBI to be able to tell whether or not that joke is criminal behavior within their legal jurisdiction.

mhoad 4y ago
You seem to have some incredibly strong opinions on how you think national security is supposed to work while not seeming to understand even the basic functionality of the role and remit of the FBI. It’s ok to just say you don’t know sometimes.
- philwelch 4y ago
  The basic functionality of the role and remit of the FBI does not entail helping Twitter enforce its terms of service. They’re supposed to be a law enforcement agency that performs criminal investigations to support federal prosecutors, not a secret police force that engages in extrajudicial measures against political dissidents, though I suppose Fred Hampton and Martin Luther King would have something to say about the latter.

benmmurphy 4y ago

Even if these people were not joking it is not clear that this is illegal. The statutes that try to prevent election misinformation likely violate the first amendment or they may not apply in these specific cases. The FBI should be prosecuting people so these statutes have a chance of being challenged in court and these people have a chance to defend themselves. Either that or twitter should have informed them that the report was originated by the US government. If this information was never leaked then the people effected by the FBI’s secret speech suppression may never have known and would never had a chance to contest it in court.

philwelch 4y ago
> The statutes that try to prevent election misinformation Do such statutes even exist? I suspect the answer is no, and that the FBI is just engaging in extralegal, extrajudicial monkeyshines. > If this information was never leaked then the people effected by the FBI’s secret speech suppression may never have known and would never had a chance to contest it in court. From a certain point of view (which seems distressingly popular on HN lately) that’s considered a feature and not a bug.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/election-crimes-and-security https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/sca... > Intentionally deceiving qualified voters to prevent them from voting is voter suppression—and it is a federal crime. > Bad actors use various methods to spread disinformation about voting, such as social media platforms, texting, or peer-to-peer messaging applications on smartphones. They may provide misleading information about the time, manner, or place of voting. This can include inaccurate election dates or false claims about voting qualifications or methods, such as false information suggesting that one may vote by text, which is not allowed in any jurisdiction. > Help defend the right to vote by reporting any suspected instances of voter suppression—especially those received through a private communication channel like texting—to your local FBI field office or at tips.fbi.gov. Guess this is in their purview.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    In that case I’m with benmmurphy: they should be enforcing the law by actually prosecuting people in court (or, to be pedantic, performing arrests and investigations to support a prosecution by a US Attorney), not engaging in extrajudicial monkeyshines.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      I agree with the spirit of this, but the point is this neither extrajudicial nor monkeyshines, nor out of the ordinary, which means this entire discussion has been bamboozled by business as usual, while more interesting controversies have been neglected.