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That is exactly how you run a business. Business isn't just about products. You need people to buy them. If your brand is tarnished because people don't like

That is exactly how you run a business. Business isn't just about products. You need people to buy them. If your brand is tarnished because people don't like you, it doesn't matter how good your products are. If you run something like Pax and people don't want to come because you have a reputation for having a bunch of arrogant a-holes, you will not have a viable business model for long. Most people miss the human aspect to business. It's one of the most crucial elements that affects marketing, branding, customer service, sales, etc. If people hate you, no matter how much they like your products, you eventually fail.

endersshadow 15y ago
Reminds me of a quote from the Office that I thought was rather poignant: "Business is always personal. It's the most personal thing in the world."
- shabble 15y ago
  I've just finished reading Altered Carbon[1], and quite enjoyed this quote: 'The personal, as every one's so fucking fond of saying, is political. So if some idiot politician, some power player, tries to execute policies that harm you or those you care about, TAKE IT PERSONALLY. Get angry. The Machinery of Justice will not serve you here — it is slow and cold, and it is theirs, hardware and soft-. Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; the creatures of power slide out from under -with a -wink and a grin. If you want justice, you will have to claw it from them. Make it PERSONAL. Do as much damage as you can. GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS. That way you stand afar better chance of being taken seriously next time. Of being considered dangerous. And make no mistake about this: being taken seriously, being considered dangerous marks the difference, the ONLY difference in their eyes, between players and little people. Players they will make deals with. Little people they liquidate. And time and again they cream your liquidation, your displacement, your torture and brutal execution with the ultimate insult that it's just business, it's politics, it's the way of the world, it's a tough life and that IT'S NOTHING PERSONAL, mil, fuck them. Make it personal.' QUELLCRIST FALCONER Things I Should Have Learnt by Now Volume II [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon
paulhauggis 15y ago
"If you run something like Pax and people don't want to come because you have a reputation for having a bunch of arrogant a-holes, you will not have a viable business model for long." So, if I start a restaurant and decide that only Christians can eat here, would that be okay with you? After all, non-Christians may tarnish the quality of the restaurant. If I decide to not hire people with earrings, are ugly (let's say I have a hooters), or I just don't like, I would either get lawsuits for discrimination or from the ACLU. How is this any different? and why shouldn't I also be able to choose whom I do business with?
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  rolling..rolling.rolling..my free speech is gone.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    You get what you pay for. Having ill-considered opinions down voted isn't a violation of your right to free speech (which was never guaranteed in a private venue in the first place, by the by). Instead, it's an expression of everyone else's speech. You're allowed to be wrong. Others are allowed to point it out.
- yardie 15y ago
  First, if you only allow christians into your public[1] restaurant that would be illegal. But no one would come because they found out you were an ass and the government would take you to court for violating the Civil rights act. Second, you are in your rights to do those things. You can't discriminate based on race, age, gender or religion; tats, piercings and ugliness are fair game. If you are in the US, CA or EU you should read up on what the local human rights/civil rights laws entail. Edit: There are exemptions for "members only" places, which is different than public restaurants. but then you would no longer be a restaurant but considered a club. For example, the gym, curves, is members only. One of the membership requirements is being a woman. If they decide to open a coffeeshop on the side they wouldn't be allowed to have it open to the public. It's either fully open or mostly closed, now in between.
paulhauggis 15y ago
Even better, I'm going to run a software convention and exclude anyone associated with the GNU or how about anyone that is homosexual? I know there have been cases that have come up on HN where people have been legally excluded and because it was against the ideals of the majority of the community, it was "discrimination". I don't like this guy either, but if you allow this sort of behavior, don't complain when there are other groups excluded in the future. and btw, it's not how you run a business. If he was an asshole when he's there, then just kick him out. It's very unprofessional and childish to exclude someone from your show based on feelings and emotions.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  This isn't "excluding a group." This is excluding an asshole. How do you conflate imposing consequences on one person's bad behavior, over which they have full control, with excluding homosexuals? Seriously. Is this is a thing where you haven't fully woken up yet and you're just typing to type? Because I've done that and it's the only reasonable explanation what you're saying here. One of the great things about running your own business is that you get to decide your values and navigate by them. Deciding one of your values is never to reward people who are assholes to your customers is an entirely reasonable call.
- wvenable 15y ago
  You don't even know what discrimination is. It is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership in a certain group or category. In other words, excluding someone associated with GNU or anyone who is a homosexual is discrimination but excluding someone who is an asshole is not discrimination. Please do not use the term incorrectly.

endersshadow 15y ago

Reminds me of a quote from the Office that I thought was rather poignant: "Business is always personal. It's the most personal thing in the world."

shabble 15y ago
I've just finished reading Altered Carbon[1], and quite enjoyed this quote: 'The personal, as every one's so fucking fond of saying, is political. So if some idiot politician, some power player, tries to execute policies that harm you or those you care about, TAKE IT PERSONALLY. Get angry. The Machinery of Justice will not serve you here — it is slow and cold, and it is theirs, hardware and soft-. Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; the creatures of power slide out from under -with a -wink and a grin. If you want justice, you will have to claw it from them. Make it PERSONAL. Do as much damage as you can. GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS. That way you stand afar better chance of being taken seriously next time. Of being considered dangerous. And make no mistake about this: being taken seriously, being considered dangerous marks the difference, the ONLY difference in their eyes, between players and little people. Players they will make deals with. Little people they liquidate. And time and again they cream your liquidation, your displacement, your torture and brutal execution with the ultimate insult that it's just business, it's politics, it's the way of the world, it's a tough life and that IT'S NOTHING PERSONAL, mil, fuck them. Make it personal.' QUELLCRIST FALCONER Things I Should Have Learnt by Now Volume II [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon

paulhauggis 15y ago

"If you run something like Pax and people don't want to come because you have a reputation for having a bunch of arrogant a-holes, you will not have a viable business model for long." So, if I start a restaurant and decide that only Christians can eat here, would that be okay with you? After all, non-Christians may tarnish the quality of the restaurant. If I decide to not hire people with earrings, are ugly (let's say I have a hooters), or I just don't like, I would either get lawsuits for discrimination or from the ACLU. How is this any different? and why shouldn't I also be able to choose whom I do business with?

paulhauggis 15y ago
rolling..rolling.rolling..my free speech is gone.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  You get what you pay for. Having ill-considered opinions down voted isn't a violation of your right to free speech (which was never guaranteed in a private venue in the first place, by the by). Instead, it's an expression of everyone else's speech. You're allowed to be wrong. Others are allowed to point it out.
yardie 15y ago
First, if you only allow christians into your public[1] restaurant that would be illegal. But no one would come because they found out you were an ass and the government would take you to court for violating the Civil rights act. Second, you are in your rights to do those things. You can't discriminate based on race, age, gender or religion; tats, piercings and ugliness are fair game. If you are in the US, CA or EU you should read up on what the local human rights/civil rights laws entail. Edit: There are exemptions for "members only" places, which is different than public restaurants. but then you would no longer be a restaurant but considered a club. For example, the gym, curves, is members only. One of the membership requirements is being a woman. If they decide to open a coffeeshop on the side they wouldn't be allowed to have it open to the public. It's either fully open or mostly closed, now in between.

paulhauggis 15y ago

Even better, I'm going to run a software convention and exclude anyone associated with the GNU or how about anyone that is homosexual? I know there have been cases that have come up on HN where people have been legally excluded and because it was against the ideals of the majority of the community, it was "discrimination". I don't like this guy either, but if you allow this sort of behavior, don't complain when there are other groups excluded in the future. and btw, it's not how you run a business. If he was an asshole when he's there, then just kick him out. It's very unprofessional and childish to exclude someone from your show based on feelings and emotions.

danilocampos 15y ago
This isn't "excluding a group." This is excluding an asshole. How do you conflate imposing consequences on one person's bad behavior, over which they have full control, with excluding homosexuals? Seriously. Is this is a thing where you haven't fully woken up yet and you're just typing to type? Because I've done that and it's the only reasonable explanation what you're saying here. One of the great things about running your own business is that you get to decide your values and navigate by them. Deciding one of your values is never to reward people who are assholes to your customers is an entirely reasonable call.
wvenable 15y ago
You don't even know what discrimination is. It is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership in a certain group or category. In other words, excluding someone associated with GNU or anyone who is a homosexual is discrimination but excluding someone who is an asshole is not discrimination. Please do not use the term incorrectly.