6 ms·

Would love to hear from domain experts here. Reading the article one finds that they only created very small cathodes rather than anything close to a 'consumer

Would love to hear from domain experts here. Reading the article one finds that they only created very small cathodes rather than anything close to a 'consumer sized' battery. (The full text of the paper is available for free at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202206828 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202206828)

jpm_sd 4y ago
It's just more science by press release. Wake me up when there's a real manufacturing process developed.
scythe 4y ago
I'm not a battery expert, but I have looked into Na-S before. While it's a great rhetorical bludgeon in arguments about what batteries can do in theory — we'll never run out of sodium or sulfur — actual costs of Na-S installations are consistently much higher than lithium or other battery types. For example, this review cites a present system cost of over $400/kWh: https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/13/13/3307 https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/13/13/3307 A new scientific development can be cool, but it won't directly reduce costs, since it's not actually an industrial process. A lower operating temperature might simplify construction. But all that remains to be seen. EDIT: if you read the original paper in TFA you will find that molybdenum, an extremely rare metal, is key to the cathode, though only at 1.2% by weight. Interpretation unclear.
app4soft 4y ago
> Reading the article one finds that they only created very small cathodes rather than anything close to a 'consumer sized' battery There are few articles on 'consumer sized' 18650 sodium-ion (Na-S, Na-ion) battery (aka NIB): October 2019: Developing O3 type layered oxide cathode and its application in 18650 commercial type Na-ion batteries[0] May 2022: First 18650-format Na-ion cells aging investigation: A degradation mechanism study[1] August 2022: Remaining useful life prediction for 18650 sodium-ion batteries based on incremental capacity analysis[2] [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336562138_Developing_O3_type_layered_oxide_cathode_and_its_application_in_18650_commercial_type_Na-ion_batteries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336562138_Developin... [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359078973_First_18650-format_Na-ion_cells_aging_investigation_A_degradation_mechanism_study https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359078973_First_186... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362754837_Remaining_useful_life_prediction_for_18650_sodium-ion_batteries_based_on_incremental_capacity_analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362754837_Remaining...

jpm_sd 4y ago

It's just more science by press release. Wake me up when there's a real manufacturing process developed.

scythe 4y ago

I'm not a battery expert, but I have looked into Na-S before. While it's a great rhetorical bludgeon in arguments about what batteries can do in theory — we'll never run out of sodium or sulfur — actual costs of Na-S installations are consistently much higher than lithium or other battery types. For example, this review cites a present system cost of over $400/kWh: https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/13/13/3307 https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/13/13/3307 A new scientific development can be cool, but it won't directly reduce costs, since it's not actually an industrial process. A lower operating temperature might simplify construction. But all that remains to be seen. EDIT: if you read the original paper in TFA you will find that molybdenum, an extremely rare metal, is key to the cathode, though only at 1.2% by weight. Interpretation unclear.

app4soft 4y ago

> Reading the article one finds that they only created very small cathodes rather than anything close to a 'consumer sized' battery There are few articles on 'consumer sized' 18650 sodium-ion (Na-S, Na-ion) battery (aka NIB): October 2019: Developing O3 type layered oxide cathode and its application in 18650 commercial type Na-ion batteries[0] May 2022: First 18650-format Na-ion cells aging investigation: A degradation mechanism study[1] August 2022: Remaining useful life prediction for 18650 sodium-ion batteries based on incremental capacity analysis[2] [0] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336562138_Developing_O3_type_layered_oxide_cathode_and_its_application_in_18650_commercial_type_Na-ion_batteries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336562138_Developin... [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359078973_First_18650-format_Na-ion_cells_aging_investigation_A_degradation_mechanism_study https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359078973_First_186... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362754837_Remaining_useful_life_prediction_for_18650_sodium-ion_batteries_based_on_incremental_capacity_analysis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362754837_Remaining...