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Outcomes speak for themselves. Tesla has had their timelines set back years and they're still ahead of everyone else in every category and their products sell l

by oxplot 4y ago

Outcomes speak for themselves. Tesla has had their timelines set back years and they're still ahead of everyone else in every category and their products sell like hot cakes. People who actually care about innovation and progress aren't pedantic about slipped timelines, panel gaps or hiccups, ESPECIALLY on projects that are on the cutting edge. If you think investors, most of whom worked their ass off to build their capital, are so gullible, over so many years, then you're not giving them enough credit (unless you think Tesla is misleading investors Theranos style - at which point, I'm off). As for the whole Apple situation. If all companies tried to do what Apple does all the time, we'd be living in the stone age. Apple is an exception to the rule in that they're perfectionists in their tiny little bubble. Perhaps you didn't catch Apple's abondoned plan to build their own car. Did you hear about Dyson? Making an EV you can actually sell for profit is something even Apple, with all their money and talent, can't do and Tesla does like it's child play. Tesla has has the highest per unit margin of any automaker out there by factors of 3x and more. Apple does not hold a single candle to Tesla.

jonasdegendt 4y ago
I largely agree with you but if I can be pedantic, they’re not the only manufacturer with high margins, Porsche does too for example. Teslas are still a luxury vehicle so it’s no surprise they’re able to fetch higher margins than say, Toyota, who’s main sales are economy cars. Apples to apples and all.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Tesla is about to overtake companies like BMW who have existed for 100 years. They already outsell Porsche. And without having entered into major markets like Pickups, Semis and a number of others. And they make their margin on EV, while many other companies simply lose money on EV and simply hide that fact. Or make minimal margin on the cars and lose money on EV overall. Only a few years ago it was widely believed that you can't make money on EVs.
- vel0city 4y ago
  Another concept to look at for margin comparison is the fact all the other manufacturers are still playing the dealer network game. Lots of the profits on the cars aren't going to the old manufacturers, it's going to the local dealers. Tesla doesn't have dealers, so all the dealer profits go to Tesla.
LightG 4y ago
Hard disagree on cars. Everyone has caught up. I'll raise you Hyundai/Kia against a model 3 any day of the week. At Plaid levels, a trimmed up Taycan is gorgeous by comparison and Lucid hit the Plaid where it counts ... and let's not even talk about Rimac. Sorry, the fan boy belief that Tesla is far ahead of the competition is 18 months out of date now.
- oxplot 4y ago
  > Everyone has caught up They are caught up when they start outselling Tesla (or heck become available so one can actually buy one). Great cars (which I don't think Hyundai/Kia are by any stretch of imagination, from piss-poor software to poor charging infrastructure, but let's discount this for now) can exist at great prices all they want, but if I can't get my hand on one and the 500 or so that show up once every few month get gobbled up in seconds, they practically do not exist at all. And mind you, the disparity in production is not gonna go away any time soon. They're all limited by battery production and unless they make their own batteries, Tesla has long been in the line to buy batteries from anywhere they possibly can, as much as they can. They don't screw around. BYD is far more of a competitor to Tesla than Kia/Hyandai have been to date. EDIT: and Tesla is no exemption here - once they have a Cybertruck selling in competitive "numbers", it becomes competitive. Until then, Rivians and Fords are leading the pack (and I must say, beautifully).
  - LightG 4y ago
    >>they're still ahead of everyone else in every category Your definiton ^ ... And, in terms of sales, that might be your definition of 'caught up' but it's not mine. Well-used analagy applies here: if sales are your KPI then I assume McDonalds is your idea of a fine meal. Sorry, no. And your dismissal of Hyundai/Kia by definition singles you out as far out there in biased land. I've test drove all three (including Tesla) and done the research. The only reason I haven't bought an ioniq 5 is because I simply can't justify it at the moment (my work-life means it'll just sit in the driveway however much I want it). But they are all ... great cars. I'll say Tesla are great cars with groundbreaking technology, if ugly. But the Hyundai/Kia are now the better cars (interior, build, comfort) and the all around package. Again, unless you count "sales" as the definition of 'in the lead'. *Disclaimer: I have a driveway where I can charge over night. If you don't have this, perhaps the supercharger network means something to you. That appears to be the only advantage.

by oxplot 4y ago

jonasdegendt 4y ago

I largely agree with you but if I can be pedantic, they’re not the only manufacturer with high margins, Porsche does too for example. Teslas are still a luxury vehicle so it’s no surprise they’re able to fetch higher margins than say, Toyota, who’s main sales are economy cars. Apples to apples and all.

panick21_ 4y ago
Tesla is about to overtake companies like BMW who have existed for 100 years. They already outsell Porsche. And without having entered into major markets like Pickups, Semis and a number of others. And they make their margin on EV, while many other companies simply lose money on EV and simply hide that fact. Or make minimal margin on the cars and lose money on EV overall. Only a few years ago it was widely believed that you can't make money on EVs.
vel0city 4y ago
Another concept to look at for margin comparison is the fact all the other manufacturers are still playing the dealer network game. Lots of the profits on the cars aren't going to the old manufacturers, it's going to the local dealers. Tesla doesn't have dealers, so all the dealer profits go to Tesla.

LightG 4y ago

Hard disagree on cars. Everyone has caught up. I'll raise you Hyundai/Kia against a model 3 any day of the week. At Plaid levels, a trimmed up Taycan is gorgeous by comparison and Lucid hit the Plaid where it counts ... and let's not even talk about Rimac. Sorry, the fan boy belief that Tesla is far ahead of the competition is 18 months out of date now.

oxplot 4y ago
> Everyone has caught up They are caught up when they start outselling Tesla (or heck become available so one can actually buy one). Great cars (which I don't think Hyundai/Kia are by any stretch of imagination, from piss-poor software to poor charging infrastructure, but let's discount this for now) can exist at great prices all they want, but if I can't get my hand on one and the 500 or so that show up once every few month get gobbled up in seconds, they practically do not exist at all. And mind you, the disparity in production is not gonna go away any time soon. They're all limited by battery production and unless they make their own batteries, Tesla has long been in the line to buy batteries from anywhere they possibly can, as much as they can. They don't screw around. BYD is far more of a competitor to Tesla than Kia/Hyandai have been to date. EDIT: and Tesla is no exemption here - once they have a Cybertruck selling in competitive "numbers", it becomes competitive. Until then, Rivians and Fords are leading the pack (and I must say, beautifully).
- LightG 4y ago
  >>they're still ahead of everyone else in every category Your definiton ^ ... And, in terms of sales, that might be your definition of 'caught up' but it's not mine. Well-used analagy applies here: if sales are your KPI then I assume McDonalds is your idea of a fine meal. Sorry, no. And your dismissal of Hyundai/Kia by definition singles you out as far out there in biased land. I've test drove all three (including Tesla) and done the research. The only reason I haven't bought an ioniq 5 is because I simply can't justify it at the moment (my work-life means it'll just sit in the driveway however much I want it). But they are all ... great cars. I'll say Tesla are great cars with groundbreaking technology, if ugly. But the Hyundai/Kia are now the better cars (interior, build, comfort) and the all around package. Again, unless you count "sales" as the definition of 'in the lead'. *Disclaimer: I have a driveway where I can charge over night. If you don't have this, perhaps the supercharger network means something to you. That appears to be the only advantage.