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Are you referring to incidents like this: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-attack-girl-fife-transgender-katie-dolatowski https://www.

by bbbbbp 4y ago

Are you referring to incidents like this: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-attack-girl-fife-transgender-katie-dolatowski https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-...? If so, these are rare, and aren't the main reason why most people want to keep certain spaces as sex-segregated.

0ct4via 4y ago
Ignoring that the Sun is tabloid trash, nobody raises as many complaints when men sexually assault women or children, nor do they make the same complaints about the "risks" or "predators" when it comes to trans men -- this is specifically a boogeyman rhetoric designed to denigrate trans women. If you're reading this, you've probably been in a bathroom with a trans person, or someone you know has, and they've been absolutely fine. Trans people by and large want to get in, pee, and get out, same as everyone else -- but perhaps moreso, given the risk of transphobic rhetoric and abuse if they were to be "clocked" (identified) as a trans person. The primary abusers of women and children are men, followed by (cis) women. Trans women make up an exceedingly small portion of that particular criminal element, but they're vilified and used as boogeymen so much more, to attempt to deny trans women's existence under "think of the children" handwaving.
- bbbbbp 4y ago
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  - 0ct4via 4y ago
    * trans-exclusionary feminists, you mean. Plenty feminists are intersectional, TERFs are in the minority (and before someone claims it's a slur, a cis woman feminist came up with the term, to refer to the trans-exclusionary minority). Trans is a descriptor, so "trans woman" is the appropriate usage, nor "transwoman" -- and those feminists aren't taking umbrage with non-binary trans people, or trans men -- only trans women... Hmm. That aside, the link you provided is disingenuous -- the author may be trans, but they conflate sex and gender, and have often been transphobic, as have the CCJS themselves. You don't seem to be engaging in good faith -- ignoring the "whataboutism" and ignorant terminology, you're also conflating sex with gender, and deciding that a minority justify excluding the vast majority. Are you next going to say that only women who can bleed and bear children are women? -- because plenty of cis women can't, and that's the kind of exclusionary rhetoric that's used next.
    - bbbbbp 4y ago
      I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding. Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.
      - 0ct4via 4y ago
        Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.
        bbbbbp 4y ago
        Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.

by bbbbbp 4y ago

0ct4via 4y ago

Ignoring that the Sun is tabloid trash, nobody raises as many complaints when men sexually assault women or children, nor do they make the same complaints about the "risks" or "predators" when it comes to trans men -- this is specifically a boogeyman rhetoric designed to denigrate trans women. If you're reading this, you've probably been in a bathroom with a trans person, or someone you know has, and they've been absolutely fine. Trans people by and large want to get in, pee, and get out, same as everyone else -- but perhaps moreso, given the risk of transphobic rhetoric and abuse if they were to be "clocked" (identified) as a trans person. The primary abusers of women and children are men, followed by (cis) women. Trans women make up an exceedingly small portion of that particular criminal element, but they're vilified and used as boogeymen so much more, to attempt to deny trans women's existence under "think of the children" handwaving.

bbbbbp 4y ago
[dead]
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  * trans-exclusionary feminists, you mean. Plenty feminists are intersectional, TERFs are in the minority (and before someone claims it's a slur, a cis woman feminist came up with the term, to refer to the trans-exclusionary minority). Trans is a descriptor, so "trans woman" is the appropriate usage, nor "transwoman" -- and those feminists aren't taking umbrage with non-binary trans people, or trans men -- only trans women... Hmm. That aside, the link you provided is disingenuous -- the author may be trans, but they conflate sex and gender, and have often been transphobic, as have the CCJS themselves. You don't seem to be engaging in good faith -- ignoring the "whataboutism" and ignorant terminology, you're also conflating sex with gender, and deciding that a minority justify excluding the vast majority. Are you next going to say that only women who can bleed and bear children are women? -- because plenty of cis women can't, and that's the kind of exclusionary rhetoric that's used next.
  - bbbbbp 4y ago
    I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding. Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.
    - 0ct4via 4y ago
      Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.
      - bbbbbp 4y ago
        Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.