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This is disturbing news about New Zealand's access to the Facebook takedown portal for censorship. It's alarming that the government has such direct control ove

This is disturbing news about New Zealand's access to the Facebook takedown portal for censorship. It's alarming that the government has such direct control over what content is allowed on the platform and raises concerns about freedom of speech. This is yet another example of the need for more transparency and accountability in the relationship between tech companies and governments.

lostlogin 4y ago
Disturbing to some, and liked by others. I’m a New Zealander and fully support the blocking of that murderers content.
- jamesvnz 4y ago
  Agreed. I have zero concerns that the NZ government is censoring content that it shouldn't. If that ever changes - we'd notice - and we'd make people aware of it.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  I'm a New Zealander. I'm ok with the blocking of the video depicting the murders, I am not OK with the shooters manifesto being illegal to possess.
  - abigail95 4y ago
    Also from NZ. I would be wary of a government telling me that a horrible terrorist attack has taken place, that a video exists with clear evidence of who did it and why, but that I'm not allowed to view it or show it to others. I'm fine with facebook removing it.
    - jimjimjim 4y ago
      Why would you want to see it? How could viewing it improve your life? There are things in life you can't unsee. Like, really unsee. Awake at 3am can't unsee.
      - laputan_machine 4y ago
        What an authoritarian statement. That isn't your decision to make.
        lostlogin 4y ago
        > That isn't your decision to make. It quite literally wasn’t, and the op was ok with that. I am too. NZs democracy functions better than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/
    - disordinary 4y ago
      They don't want people to see it because it will motivate copy cats. People get perverse enjoyment from it, like that white supremacist from Christchurch who put a kill counter on it. What do you think the survivors think about that video being out there for you to enjoy? The victims families? At the very least we have the right to privacy here, you can't legally film people on private property without their consent.
      - boredhedgehog 4y ago
        > They don't want people to see it because it will motivate copy cats. The problem with that line of argument is that even if it's true, it undermines democracy. Democracy is based on the equality of all citizens. But you're segmenting people into two groups: those with superior intrinsic qualities and moral and intellectual strength that they can watch the problematic video without turning into copycats. People usually include themselves in that group and believe this group can work in the censorship office. And then the other group, which is perceived as weak and in needs of protection (usually included: people we don't like). Note that you must make the judgement who belongs in which group before anyone is allowed to see the problematic video. Note who makes the official judgment.
        lostlogin 4y ago
        New Zealand has one of the strongest democracies on earth. It’s hard to square that reality with the fear that we are weakening it by blocking this sort of content. Arguing that we would have an even strong democracy if we could watch a video of that nut job shooting people is quite the claim. The killer has inspired other hate crimes, and I believe his video is a big part of his way of spreading his message. Where is your line? What content is ok to block? https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://apnews.com/article/australia-race-and-ethnicity-el-paso-new-zealand-mosque-attacks-tx-state-wire-e256dbf73bf043ec9ae49af18c4a33c3 https://apnews.com/article/australia-race-and-ethnicity-el-p...
        disordinary 4y ago
        Yes, we have laws that's why we live in a society. People that work in the censorship office don't make calls based on morals, that make calls based on policy, they also face mental health challenges and get the support needed to a look at this content without radicalising or breaking down. While pushing for your right to view the video, you're also ignoring the rights of the victims. How is it that you're right is more important than theirs?
- drstewart 4y ago
  I'm sure many Chinese are fine with Tianamen and Covid censorship. So what are your opinions on the Chinese protests?
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    The NZ government is a million miles from being like the Chinese government. There are plenty of problems in NZ but our democracy works better than most. https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
vectro22 4y ago
Thanks ChatGPT...
disordinary 4y ago
Freedom is defined differently in different countries, in New Zealand the general rule is you have freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't impact on the freedom of others. Therefore, you can have freedom of speech but you can't live stream a terror attack, which is what happened. A foreign terrorist live streamed an attack on Facebook. Despite this, NZ ranks as the second freest country in the world, and has much less censorship than other countries like the US who don't even crack the top 10.
- fche 4y ago
  live streaming a terror attack does not "impact on the freedom of others"
  - disordinary 4y ago
    Of course it does.

lostlogin 4y ago

Disturbing to some, and liked by others. I’m a New Zealander and fully support the blocking of that murderers content.

jamesvnz 4y ago
Agreed. I have zero concerns that the NZ government is censoring content that it shouldn't. If that ever changes - we'd notice - and we'd make people aware of it.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
I'm a New Zealander. I'm ok with the blocking of the video depicting the murders, I am not OK with the shooters manifesto being illegal to possess.
- abigail95 4y ago
  Also from NZ. I would be wary of a government telling me that a horrible terrorist attack has taken place, that a video exists with clear evidence of who did it and why, but that I'm not allowed to view it or show it to others. I'm fine with facebook removing it.
  - jimjimjim 4y ago
    Why would you want to see it? How could viewing it improve your life? There are things in life you can't unsee. Like, really unsee. Awake at 3am can't unsee.
    - laputan_machine 4y ago
      What an authoritarian statement. That isn't your decision to make.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        > That isn't your decision to make. It quite literally wasn’t, and the op was ok with that. I am too. NZs democracy functions better than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/
  - disordinary 4y ago
    They don't want people to see it because it will motivate copy cats. People get perverse enjoyment from it, like that white supremacist from Christchurch who put a kill counter on it. What do you think the survivors think about that video being out there for you to enjoy? The victims families? At the very least we have the right to privacy here, you can't legally film people on private property without their consent.
    - boredhedgehog 4y ago
      > They don't want people to see it because it will motivate copy cats. The problem with that line of argument is that even if it's true, it undermines democracy. Democracy is based on the equality of all citizens. But you're segmenting people into two groups: those with superior intrinsic qualities and moral and intellectual strength that they can watch the problematic video without turning into copycats. People usually include themselves in that group and believe this group can work in the censorship office. And then the other group, which is perceived as weak and in needs of protection (usually included: people we don't like). Note that you must make the judgement who belongs in which group before anyone is allowed to see the problematic video. Note who makes the official judgment.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        New Zealand has one of the strongest democracies on earth. It’s hard to square that reality with the fear that we are weakening it by blocking this sort of content. Arguing that we would have an even strong democracy if we could watch a video of that nut job shooting people is quite the claim. The killer has inspired other hate crimes, and I believe his video is a big part of his way of spreading his message. Where is your line? What content is ok to block? https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://apnews.com/article/australia-race-and-ethnicity-el-paso-new-zealand-mosque-attacks-tx-state-wire-e256dbf73bf043ec9ae49af18c4a33c3 https://apnews.com/article/australia-race-and-ethnicity-el-p...
      - disordinary 4y ago
        Yes, we have laws that's why we live in a society. People that work in the censorship office don't make calls based on morals, that make calls based on policy, they also face mental health challenges and get the support needed to a look at this content without radicalising or breaking down. While pushing for your right to view the video, you're also ignoring the rights of the victims. How is it that you're right is more important than theirs?
drstewart 4y ago
I'm sure many Chinese are fine with Tianamen and Covid censorship. So what are your opinions on the Chinese protests?
- lostlogin 4y ago
  The NZ government is a million miles from being like the Chinese government. There are plenty of problems in NZ but our democracy works better than most. https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2021/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

vectro22 4y ago

Thanks ChatGPT...

disordinary 4y ago

Freedom is defined differently in different countries, in New Zealand the general rule is you have freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't impact on the freedom of others. Therefore, you can have freedom of speech but you can't live stream a terror attack, which is what happened. A foreign terrorist live streamed an attack on Facebook. Despite this, NZ ranks as the second freest country in the world, and has much less censorship than other countries like the US who don't even crack the top 10.

fche 4y ago
live streaming a terror attack does not "impact on the freedom of others"
- disordinary 4y ago
  Of course it does.