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> I want the option to control my devices. So don’t buy an iPhone. You know that’s not the offer.

newZWhoDis 4y ago
Better: We (the people) ban you from selling phones in our rich and prosperous land if you don’t comply. Signed: Everyone
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Why do you need to ban other people from buying them? You can already just opt to not buy them yourself. Why do you care if others still want to? Clearly not signed everyone - I don’t sign it.
  - newZWhoDis 4y ago
    Lol we’re well past that. If you’re willing to ban the NFA/legalize probate nuclear weapons we might be able to talk. In the mean time I suspect you support at least some level of collective restriction, and that means banning companies from selling locked hardware is fair game.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > I suspect you support at least some level of collective restriction Locked mobile phones don’t hurt people other than the people who choose to use them. That’s different to for example a gun. The only reason to ban iPhones is because you know other people like them as they are and you’re in a minority! You want to enforce a minority opinion on others. That’s morally wrong.
    - kaashif 4y ago
      Your comment still doesn't answer the question "Why do you need to ban other people from buying them?" I think it's a good question that deserves an answer.
      - xdennis 4y ago
        Because it's anti-competitive. Society is advanced when companies have to compete and not just collect taxes from other companies who are trying to do something. The Apple tax is not advancing anything. It's just a stranglehold on innovation promoted with FUD about how running programs is insecure despite the fact that this isn't applied to desktop/laptop computers.
        kaashif 4y ago
        If it's such a stranglehold on innovation, Android will out-innovate and outcompete iOS. Or maybe Apple provides a platform that some users and businesses still find it worth paying for. You're arguing for the government to ban products you don't like when you can just buy something else.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        Apple developing a more secure platform is an innovation and advancement. If the iPhone isn’t the right choice for you buy one of the other thousand phones on the market, and leave other people alone.
- anomaly_ 4y ago
  If you seriously think is a majority opinion you need to get out more. The average person wants strong device security, look at the press and angst attracted by cybercrime in recent times.
  - xdennis 4y ago
    The discussion is about control. No one is saying devices should be less secure. If you ask people "should you be able to run any program you want on your devices?" I doubt people would answer "yes, on computers, but on phones I should only be able to run what Tim Apple allows me to".
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Most people would answer ‘I’m happy with what’s on the App Store thanks I have no desire to use anything else’.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
xdennis 4y ago
There are many regulations already in place to protect consumer rights. The idea that you can influence companies by not buying is an illusion. The only real solution to anti-competitive practices is legislation. It used to be that when you bought a computer you could run any program you wanted. No one thought this needed to be enshrined in law until Apple thought to restrict what you can do with your own devices. We do need legislation to ban devices which don't allow running general programs.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  I consider it part of Apple's competitive advantage. I bought an iPhone because I want it to just work and for my apps to behave well. I can do the tinkering on my laptop, I don't want every computing device I own to be hackable. Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that.
  - carl_dr 4y ago
    > Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that. Well, you can - just don't install any 3rd party apps?
    - squeaky-clean 4y ago
      And people who want a hackable iPhone can jailbreak it or whip out the microscopic soldering iron. I basically don't install 3rd party apps but I want it enforced at the OS level. If even 5% of iPhone users were unable to install apps companies would think twice about ruining their website in order to force their mobile app on users.
      - squeaky-clean 4y ago
        Would appreciate if the drive-by downvoters actually left a comment. It's a discussion, not an "I don't like your opinion" button.

Better: We (the people) ban you from selling phones in our rich and prosperous land if you don’t comply. Signed: Everyone

chrisseaton 4y ago
Why do you need to ban other people from buying them? You can already just opt to not buy them yourself. Why do you care if others still want to? Clearly not signed everyone - I don’t sign it.
- newZWhoDis 4y ago
  Lol we’re well past that. If you’re willing to ban the NFA/legalize probate nuclear weapons we might be able to talk. In the mean time I suspect you support at least some level of collective restriction, and that means banning companies from selling locked hardware is fair game.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > I suspect you support at least some level of collective restriction Locked mobile phones don’t hurt people other than the people who choose to use them. That’s different to for example a gun. The only reason to ban iPhones is because you know other people like them as they are and you’re in a minority! You want to enforce a minority opinion on others. That’s morally wrong.
  - kaashif 4y ago
    Your comment still doesn't answer the question "Why do you need to ban other people from buying them?" I think it's a good question that deserves an answer.
    - xdennis 4y ago
      Because it's anti-competitive. Society is advanced when companies have to compete and not just collect taxes from other companies who are trying to do something. The Apple tax is not advancing anything. It's just a stranglehold on innovation promoted with FUD about how running programs is insecure despite the fact that this isn't applied to desktop/laptop computers.
      - kaashif 4y ago
        If it's such a stranglehold on innovation, Android will out-innovate and outcompete iOS. Or maybe Apple provides a platform that some users and businesses still find it worth paying for. You're arguing for the government to ban products you don't like when you can just buy something else.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        Apple developing a more secure platform is an innovation and advancement. If the iPhone isn’t the right choice for you buy one of the other thousand phones on the market, and leave other people alone.
anomaly_ 4y ago
If you seriously think is a majority opinion you need to get out more. The average person wants strong device security, look at the press and angst attracted by cybercrime in recent times.
- xdennis 4y ago
  The discussion is about control. No one is saying devices should be less secure. If you ask people "should you be able to run any program you want on your devices?" I doubt people would answer "yes, on computers, but on phones I should only be able to run what Tim Apple allows me to".
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Most people would answer ‘I’m happy with what’s on the App Store thanks I have no desire to use anything else’.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

xdennis 4y ago

There are many regulations already in place to protect consumer rights. The idea that you can influence companies by not buying is an illusion. The only real solution to anti-competitive practices is legislation. It used to be that when you bought a computer you could run any program you wanted. No one thought this needed to be enshrined in law until Apple thought to restrict what you can do with your own devices. We do need legislation to ban devices which don't allow running general programs.

squeaky-clean 4y ago
I consider it part of Apple's competitive advantage. I bought an iPhone because I want it to just work and for my apps to behave well. I can do the tinkering on my laptop, I don't want every computing device I own to be hackable. Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that.
- carl_dr 4y ago
  > Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that. Well, you can - just don't install any 3rd party apps?
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    And people who want a hackable iPhone can jailbreak it or whip out the microscopic soldering iron. I basically don't install 3rd party apps but I want it enforced at the OS level. If even 5% of iPhone users were unable to install apps companies would think twice about ruining their website in order to force their mobile app on users.
    - squeaky-clean 4y ago
      Would appreciate if the drive-by downvoters actually left a comment. It's a discussion, not an "I don't like your opinion" button.