6 ms·

It definitely depends on where you are in life and what you want from life but for those of us who live in crazy housing markets good TC is the only way to have

by TimPC 4y ago

It definitely depends on where you are in life and what you want from life but for those of us who live in crazy housing markets good TC is the only way to have a mortgage. It’s kind of crazy to be a successful dev and be stuck forever renting. If okay compensation in a low cost of living area gets you a home that’s a bit different. But for people who live in places like the Bay Area, NYC, Vancouver or Toronto the comp has to be there and it’s a very big deal.

mancerayder 4y ago
That's it. For there to be any HOPE of stability you need a high enough salary to either eat the rent increases, be qualified for new rents, or save up for down payment/afford a mortgage. Maybe in Europe where rents are controlled it's a different story. But in US HCOL cities, a high salary is an absolute MUST, and unfortunately health and other considerations go second. That is assuming long commutes or roommates are off the list, which they are for many of us.
galangalalgol 4y ago
Yeah that can make the choice to live somewhere you love, or do something you love. Which is a hard one, but with remote work it isn't always a thing. And other than climate, most places I have been had a variety of neighborhoods with different cultures, even in the midwest. So it is possible to make your joy in your work part of your TC and let the monetary aspect slide. But telling someone who grew up in Manhattan or the Bay to move to be happy isn't right either. I maybe wouldn't recommend someone move there just for TC and climate and/or culture either though. And right or wrong, having to move to get better conditions isn't new to humanity.
- TimPC 4y ago
  The thing is total comp tends to multiply based on region and most companies adjust salaries based on where you live. If my cost of living is double in the Bay Area but my salary is also doubled I pay slightly more tax and save like 180% of what I did before. I’ve made that tradeoff in the past when I went to work at Apple. I hated the Bay Area and eventually moved back home but I saved more in those 2.5 years than I did in my entire life before that. That life included working at least part-time for 13 years before that and working full-time in tech for 6 years including as CEO of my own consultancy where I billed higher than market rates for my area. I think there is a lot of merit to at least trying moving to the Bay Area once in your career as a developer if you get the offer. As much as I hated it I don’t regret it because my resume has been dramatically better which has opened tons of doors when I moved back and the extra savings were extremely valuable too. I lived fairly frugally in Cupertino paying a small amount of rent compared to the region or SF rents. When your job is designed to pay a $6500/month rent in SF and your rent is $2200 that’s $51,600 in savings on top of what the person in SF was supposed to save. My stock options performed about averagely but I still banked roughly $300k CDN ($230,800 USD) from that 2.5 years. On the other hand if you can find a job that doesn’t adjust salaries regionally but still pays top of market you can live in rural Washington for 2 years and make bank paying an effective income tax rate close to 25% because of no state tax. You also get to enjoy a relatively low cost of living with a salary designed to pay for a very high one. So that can be a great way to make money for a few years. At Staff Engineer levels it’s possible to bank an entire house in 3-4 years of saving aggressively. I’d definitely be willing to put up with a fair amount of crap for a few years to not have to worry about a mortgage for almost the rest of my working life.

by TimPC 4y ago

mancerayder 4y ago

That's it. For there to be any HOPE of stability you need a high enough salary to either eat the rent increases, be qualified for new rents, or save up for down payment/afford a mortgage. Maybe in Europe where rents are controlled it's a different story. But in US HCOL cities, a high salary is an absolute MUST, and unfortunately health and other considerations go second. That is assuming long commutes or roommates are off the list, which they are for many of us.

galangalalgol 4y ago

Yeah that can make the choice to live somewhere you love, or do something you love. Which is a hard one, but with remote work it isn't always a thing. And other than climate, most places I have been had a variety of neighborhoods with different cultures, even in the midwest. So it is possible to make your joy in your work part of your TC and let the monetary aspect slide. But telling someone who grew up in Manhattan or the Bay to move to be happy isn't right either. I maybe wouldn't recommend someone move there just for TC and climate and/or culture either though. And right or wrong, having to move to get better conditions isn't new to humanity.

TimPC 4y ago
The thing is total comp tends to multiply based on region and most companies adjust salaries based on where you live. If my cost of living is double in the Bay Area but my salary is also doubled I pay slightly more tax and save like 180% of what I did before. I’ve made that tradeoff in the past when I went to work at Apple. I hated the Bay Area and eventually moved back home but I saved more in those 2.5 years than I did in my entire life before that. That life included working at least part-time for 13 years before that and working full-time in tech for 6 years including as CEO of my own consultancy where I billed higher than market rates for my area. I think there is a lot of merit to at least trying moving to the Bay Area once in your career as a developer if you get the offer. As much as I hated it I don’t regret it because my resume has been dramatically better which has opened tons of doors when I moved back and the extra savings were extremely valuable too. I lived fairly frugally in Cupertino paying a small amount of rent compared to the region or SF rents. When your job is designed to pay a $6500/month rent in SF and your rent is $2200 that’s $51,600 in savings on top of what the person in SF was supposed to save. My stock options performed about averagely but I still banked roughly $300k CDN ($230,800 USD) from that 2.5 years. On the other hand if you can find a job that doesn’t adjust salaries regionally but still pays top of market you can live in rural Washington for 2 years and make bank paying an effective income tax rate close to 25% because of no state tax. You also get to enjoy a relatively low cost of living with a salary designed to pay for a very high one. So that can be a great way to make money for a few years. At Staff Engineer levels it’s possible to bank an entire house in 3-4 years of saving aggressively. I’d definitely be willing to put up with a fair amount of crap for a few years to not have to worry about a mortgage for almost the rest of my working life.