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Can someone explain this vtoon trend to me? It doesn't seem to be driven by anonymity because their real name is easily findable, so I assume it's something els

Can someone explain this vtoon trend to me? It doesn't seem to be driven by anonymity because their real name is easily findable, so I assume it's something else? It seems very common, especially in certain communities.

gburdell3 4y ago
Some people just prefer their public persona to be in the form of an avatar instead of their real face. They want to have something there to represent themselves instead of just streaming a screen and nothing else, but they would rather that representation be an avatar or character rather than their physical selves.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- astrange 4y ago
  Also Japanese viewers like this better, and you don’t have to look good, and if you’re streaming from inside a soundproof box in summer without AC then you don’t even have to wear clothes.
- maegul 4y ago
  Personally, I like the idea. IMO, we lost something when it became normal/expected to link our real-life self to our internet selves. We arguable gained some unpleasant things too (thinking of Facebook here). A persistent avatar/alias as an internet persona seems to match the real-life to internet-life relationship better. IE, for many, they’re different and rather separable aspects of life.
  - javajosh 4y ago
    There was a Black Mirror episode that makes plain the downside of a virtual representation: it can be taken from you and manipulated by someone else. The persona becomes a sale-able commodity, and can be separated from your control.
    - teddyh 4y ago
      With deep fakes, this is already also true of your non-virtual representation.
    - spartanatreyu 4y ago
      I remember hearing that this exact thing happened a few years ago in either Japan or South Korea. There was a talent agency that had three-four performers who took shifts streaming games through a shared vtuber persona who had build up some popularity. At some point the agency fired the performers and replaced them with a new performer who didn't have the same performance. The fans weren't told but it was immediately apparent, so they started demanding the changes to be reverted. The fans were ignored and both the vtuber's popularity and the agency fell back into obscurity. I guess the lesson here is that personas are personal.
      - arczyx 4y ago
        Maybe this is what you're talking about? https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Game_Club_Project#2019 https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Game_Club_Project#20...
    - setr 4y ago
      Perhaps relevant — loss of control can be much more impacting depending on how much weight you give to that online persona: http://www.juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/ http://www.juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/
teddyh 4y ago
It’s like getting a specific haircut, choosing what model of glasses to get, or getting a nose job, or a tattoo. Or even just picking what style of clothes you want to represent yourself in. I.e. it’s simply choosing your appearance, using more modern technology.
- leoqa 4y ago
  That’s generous. I find it weird and creepy, interestingly the Hololive kids are exclusively young women with childlike affects. It’s not fooling anyone to pretend like this is normal self expression.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    When they were new, most people thought of nose jobs (and other cosmetic surgery) as being weird and creepy. Some people still do. What is “normal” is a function of commonality, and at least VTooning does not cost a fortune and risks neither complications nor needing further surgery for years to come.
  - KerrAvon 4y ago
    What is "normal self expression"? And what do you think they're trying to fool you about exactly? edit: clarify
  - throwaway675309 4y ago
    Number one: you're using an overloaded term, but I suppose that your specific social conditioning has given you a specific concept of the definition of normal self expression that this clearly falls out of those boundaries. Number two: this person's goal CLEARLY isn't to fool anyone, it's not a deep fake video, and it's frankly none of your business or concern that they enjoy using an animated avatar.
  - atahanacar 4y ago
    You sound like that religious old guy I see every now and then, who always annoys young people passing by for having tattoos and piercings.
anaisbetts 4y ago
If you were the Genre of person who got rude / explicit / insulting comments whenever you showed your actual face on camera, the vtoon trend would be quite easy to understand
- mlindner 4y ago
  Hector Martin (assuming they're the same person) looks perfectly fine on camera. They're an average looking person but I fail to find anything anyone would criticize about his looks.
  - Alekhine 4y ago
    Try being a woman.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      - mlindner 4y ago
    - mlindner 4y ago
      My first response was a bit curt so I've removed it. (Edit: I can't seem to remove it.) Yes I'm aware a lot of women get harassment when they show their face streaming. It's one of the reasons it's so popular in Japan for women to be vtubers rather than show their face while streaming while the popularity for men doing it is significantly less (though there's still plenty who do it without changing their voice). However Hector Martin is not a woman living in Japan and they look perfectly fine/average.
LeonM 4y ago
In case of Marcan/Lina I got the impression that he created Lina just for fun. It started as an April fools joke (Lina 'took over' Marcan's live stream), but Marcan seems to enjoy it a lot, even going so far as contributing to the Inochi2D software (used to render Lina) to improve all sorts of facial features. I don't have the impression that in Marcan's case it was ever about anonymity, it is more about a creative expression. Up until Lina's introduction on April 1st, I had never seen a vTuber stream, and I must say it is quite fun to watch. Though personally I wish Lina's voice is tweaked a bit, because it can be hard to understand what she is saying.
- novok 4y ago
  Oh I didn't realize that is what was happening. This makes all the HN commentary around it even funnier.
- glandium 4y ago
  Isn't it the opposite, though? https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582930401118806016 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582930401118806016
  - LeonM 4y ago
    I might be wrong here, but I have always been under the impression that they are the same person. I didn't even realise that is was supposed to be a secret. Simple things like Lina en Marcan using the same hostname for the development machine (Raider), using the same IDE (Kate), using the same bash aliases (the one I like most if 'stfu' that appears to suppress terminal output), and a huge overlap of knowledge. Then there is also the same fast-paced speaking style that Marcan has. I did notice Lina always (rather jokingly) denying being Marcan, especially during the April 1 debut, but I always assumed that that was just part of the joke. Again, I might be wrong here, maybe they are not the same person after all, but as far as I can tell it's just Hector Martin having fun. > Isn't it the opposite, though? You mean Lina being first, and Marcan being an alter-ego? Marcan (Hector Martin) is a real person, he has done quite a few interviews on camera. https://youtu.be/dF2YQ92WKpM?t=496 https://youtu.be/dF2YQ92WKpM?t=496
realjhol 4y ago
- IntelMiner 4y ago
  Very well articulated comment from someone with highlights such as "you write for the Gaurdian and relentlessly spout feminist propaganda" "destruction that activist hooligans created in Portland" "Neurodiverse isn't a real medical term" Sounds like you've got a very particular axe to grind from a very particularly narrow world view. I hope one day you learn to enjoy your fellow human beings for who they are

gburdell3 4y ago

Some people just prefer their public persona to be in the form of an avatar instead of their real face. They want to have something there to represent themselves instead of just streaming a screen and nothing else, but they would rather that representation be an avatar or character rather than their physical selves.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
astrange 4y ago
Also Japanese viewers like this better, and you don’t have to look good, and if you’re streaming from inside a soundproof box in summer without AC then you don’t even have to wear clothes.
maegul 4y ago
Personally, I like the idea. IMO, we lost something when it became normal/expected to link our real-life self to our internet selves. We arguable gained some unpleasant things too (thinking of Facebook here). A persistent avatar/alias as an internet persona seems to match the real-life to internet-life relationship better. IE, for many, they’re different and rather separable aspects of life.
- javajosh 4y ago
  There was a Black Mirror episode that makes plain the downside of a virtual representation: it can be taken from you and manipulated by someone else. The persona becomes a sale-able commodity, and can be separated from your control.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    With deep fakes, this is already also true of your non-virtual representation.
  - spartanatreyu 4y ago
    I remember hearing that this exact thing happened a few years ago in either Japan or South Korea. There was a talent agency that had three-four performers who took shifts streaming games through a shared vtuber persona who had build up some popularity. At some point the agency fired the performers and replaced them with a new performer who didn't have the same performance. The fans weren't told but it was immediately apparent, so they started demanding the changes to be reverted. The fans were ignored and both the vtuber's popularity and the agency fell back into obscurity. I guess the lesson here is that personas are personal.
    - arczyx 4y ago
      Maybe this is what you're talking about? https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Game_Club_Project#2019 https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Game_Club_Project#20...
  - setr 4y ago
    Perhaps relevant — loss of control can be much more impacting depending on how much weight you give to that online persona: http://www.juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/ http://www.juliandibbell.com/articles/a-rape-in-cyberspace/

teddyh 4y ago

It’s like getting a specific haircut, choosing what model of glasses to get, or getting a nose job, or a tattoo. Or even just picking what style of clothes you want to represent yourself in. I.e. it’s simply choosing your appearance, using more modern technology.

leoqa 4y ago
That’s generous. I find it weird and creepy, interestingly the Hololive kids are exclusively young women with childlike affects. It’s not fooling anyone to pretend like this is normal self expression.
- teddyh 4y ago
  When they were new, most people thought of nose jobs (and other cosmetic surgery) as being weird and creepy. Some people still do. What is “normal” is a function of commonality, and at least VTooning does not cost a fortune and risks neither complications nor needing further surgery for years to come.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  What is "normal self expression"? And what do you think they're trying to fool you about exactly? edit: clarify
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  Number one: you're using an overloaded term, but I suppose that your specific social conditioning has given you a specific concept of the definition of normal self expression that this clearly falls out of those boundaries. Number two: this person's goal CLEARLY isn't to fool anyone, it's not a deep fake video, and it's frankly none of your business or concern that they enjoy using an animated avatar.
- atahanacar 4y ago
  You sound like that religious old guy I see every now and then, who always annoys young people passing by for having tattoos and piercings.

anaisbetts 4y ago

If you were the Genre of person who got rude / explicit / insulting comments whenever you showed your actual face on camera, the vtoon trend would be quite easy to understand

mlindner 4y ago
Hector Martin (assuming they're the same person) looks perfectly fine on camera. They're an average looking person but I fail to find anything anyone would criticize about his looks.
- Alekhine 4y ago
  Try being a woman.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    - mlindner 4y ago
  - mlindner 4y ago
    My first response was a bit curt so I've removed it. (Edit: I can't seem to remove it.) Yes I'm aware a lot of women get harassment when they show their face streaming. It's one of the reasons it's so popular in Japan for women to be vtubers rather than show their face while streaming while the popularity for men doing it is significantly less (though there's still plenty who do it without changing their voice). However Hector Martin is not a woman living in Japan and they look perfectly fine/average.

LeonM 4y ago

In case of Marcan/Lina I got the impression that he created Lina just for fun. It started as an April fools joke (Lina 'took over' Marcan's live stream), but Marcan seems to enjoy it a lot, even going so far as contributing to the Inochi2D software (used to render Lina) to improve all sorts of facial features. I don't have the impression that in Marcan's case it was ever about anonymity, it is more about a creative expression. Up until Lina's introduction on April 1st, I had never seen a vTuber stream, and I must say it is quite fun to watch. Though personally I wish Lina's voice is tweaked a bit, because it can be hard to understand what she is saying.

novok 4y ago
Oh I didn't realize that is what was happening. This makes all the HN commentary around it even funnier.
glandium 4y ago
Isn't it the opposite, though? https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582930401118806016 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1582930401118806016
- LeonM 4y ago
  I might be wrong here, but I have always been under the impression that they are the same person. I didn't even realise that is was supposed to be a secret. Simple things like Lina en Marcan using the same hostname for the development machine (Raider), using the same IDE (Kate), using the same bash aliases (the one I like most if 'stfu' that appears to suppress terminal output), and a huge overlap of knowledge. Then there is also the same fast-paced speaking style that Marcan has. I did notice Lina always (rather jokingly) denying being Marcan, especially during the April 1 debut, but I always assumed that that was just part of the joke. Again, I might be wrong here, maybe they are not the same person after all, but as far as I can tell it's just Hector Martin having fun. > Isn't it the opposite, though? You mean Lina being first, and Marcan being an alter-ego? Marcan (Hector Martin) is a real person, he has done quite a few interviews on camera. https://youtu.be/dF2YQ92WKpM?t=496 https://youtu.be/dF2YQ92WKpM?t=496

realjhol 4y ago

IntelMiner 4y ago
Very well articulated comment from someone with highlights such as "you write for the Gaurdian and relentlessly spout feminist propaganda" "destruction that activist hooligans created in Portland" "Neurodiverse isn't a real medical term" Sounds like you've got a very particular axe to grind from a very particularly narrow world view. I hope one day you learn to enjoy your fellow human beings for who they are