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I am one of these friendly extroverts. Something that's hard for me to explain is that "making friends is so hard it's easy" What I mean by that is, social an

• moralestapia 4y ago
  I don't disagree with your post, but this only works in communities where: 1. Trust hasn't been eroded (i.e. fraudsters/salesmen do not predominate) 2. There is an external stimuli towards making friends (i.e. socializing is being perceived as a good thing) 3. There is an internal stimuli towards making friends (i.e. disregarding #2 and all other personal needs met, one still feels the need to connect with others) The fact that you've got the results you mention here shows that you live in a community with mentally healthy, although isolated, individuals. You'll find drastically different results in other parts of the world (third-world, for instance). Plenty of people wouldn't talk to you if they see no financial benefit in doing it (even a measly amount can have a profound effect). I used to make fun of this but it's not an easy thing to swallow and can get you quite depressed. The "loneliness epidemic" is just a reflection of the eroded values and misplaced goals that are now commonplace around the world.
  • bgroat 4y ago
    Edited to include some more context. These are great points. Places where it can be assumed people are comfortable with an approach: - A public place/destination (bar is okay, bus isn't) - They are not in the middle of speaking (lulls in conversations are fine) - They are not blocking sensory inputs (don't approach if you see headphones) This also isn't magic. My success isn't 100%. It's about 30% Which means that 7/10 people don't want to talk to me (which is fine). But it also means that I can pretty reliably make a friend/day if I were so inclined A bit about me, I'm a short man (5'3") with pretty solid facial symmetry and good grooming but I'm NOT particularly attractive. I'm putting that context because it is important: - Because of maleness I'm automatically safer in most situations (as in, I can approach someone, go off solo w/them and be confident I won't be assaulted) - I'm short, so I'm not REALLY a physical threat to people - Hygiene implies social consideration/health - Facial symmetry automatically encourages trust - Being TOO attractive (and I'm nowhere close) can be intimidating to some people
    • stcroixx 4y ago
      Getting a stranger to have a conversation with you doesn’t mean you made a friend that day, at least not by and definition that’s valuable to me. It’s the first step, but what’s the conversion rate here? Most you probably never speak to again, a small number may reach acquaintance level, and even fewer end up as a friends. We probably have a different idea of what a friend is.
      • bgroat 4y ago
        My definition of a friend is defined in another comment response. Basically, "will hang 50%+ of the time an invitation is issued (schedule permitting), and both of us would enjoy ourselves). Typically takes about 3-5 meets to get there
  • rjbwork 4y ago
    >1. Trust hasn't been eroded (i.e. fraudsters/salesmen do not predominate) I have become much more guarded and cynical in the past few years after a handful of interactions like this. At a bar or restaurant, and strike up a conversation with someone, only to have them, 15-30 minutes later, introduce me to their MLM, FX, Trading Mentor, House Flipping, etc. scam, and then swiftly disengage when I am uninterested. I'm not a good looking dude, nor am I an extrovert. So I now just assume anyone approaching me in public is trying to scam me.
    • acbullen 4y ago
      I feel similar, but mostly from leftover baggage from working retail. If someone says something nice to you when you're working a cash register, 9 times out of 10 they want you to do something for them and you're about 10 seconds away from them flipping over to a verbal abuse strategy to get what they want
      • emj 4y ago
        Makes me even more convinced that I should go out of my way being nice to people working retail it. I do not think I ever get anything "out of it" except feeling a bit more positive in my outlook on life. Then at the local store we have the extremes where people call the cashiers by name, sharing personal stories etc. That makes me feel like I am part of a community, even if it is not a type of relationship I can nourish in the same way..
    • the_only_law 4y ago
      Maybe I’m paranoid, but I’ve seen too many people get exploited and shit on by people behind their backs while they keep the nicest demeanor face to face. Grown adults at that. Some of these people were well into their 30s.
    • EFreethought 4y ago
      For me it is usually religion that someone is pushing.
    • VBprogrammer 4y ago
  • erdos4d 4y ago
    > You'll find drastically different results in other parts of the world (third-world, for instance). Plenty of people wouldn't talk to you if they see no financial benefit in doing it (even a measly amount can have a profound effect). I live in Ecuador, so third-world. The people here are not really after money, unless it's very easy to get. I mean, 30% of the "economy" here involves standing in the road with a mango, hoping someone gives you some coin for it (literally). Those same people could go get a real job and do some real hard work if they wanted actual cash. They don't. They like doing basically nothing and getting along okay from it. Not saying you're wrong, but latin america doesn't work this way.
    • TylerE 4y ago
      Ecuador has no-cost public healthcare. The US does't. Not having money in the US will literally actively kill you.
      • VBprogrammer 4y ago
        I'm not sure this has the effect you are suggesting but it did make me laugh. Makes you wonder who decides what is a first world country and what is a third world country. In some ways the existence of a significant portion of American's (those unfortunate enough to be poor) is worse than a third world existence.
        • TylerE 4y ago
          It’s actually quite clear cut. 1st world: NATO and allies 2nd world: The Soviet Sphere 3rd world: Everything else.
          • bigDinosaur 4y ago
            Clear cut according to a definition absolutely nobody uses any more. There's no longer a Soviet sphere even if you wanted to use that definition and the post-soviet sphere has diverged dramatically.
      • 4y ago
• lisper 4y ago
  Making friends is not hard in the way that general relativity is hard, it's hard in the way that digging a trench is hard. You have to do a lot of grunt work for a very long time in order to see results. And there are no shortcuts, you have to do it all "by hand" or it doesn't work.
  • bgroat 4y ago
    I agree with your distinction, but not with your degree. It's *hard* v. *complex*, but it doesn't take as long as you'd think. - Approach - Chatting for an hour - 10 texts back and forth to coordinate a meet - Meet for 90 minutes (repeat the last two bullets 3-5 times) Is a pretty reliable path to "good friend". Good friend is defined as: "Will reliable hang with you, schedule permitting 60% of the time you ask... and you will both have a good time" Good friend is not, "Will donate a kidney"
    • lisper 4y ago
      We're quibbling over terminology. To me, a "good friend" is a relationship that lasts for a long time, maybe a lifetime, and survives significant challenges. It doesn't have to be a kidney, but I think a friendship should survive, for example, a relocation. Otherwise I would call it an acquaintance, not a friend. Acquaintances are indeed easy to make. The problem is, that kind of relationship is fragile and transient and superficial. I think most people want more. I know I do.
      • danenania 4y ago
        The relocation point is interesting. I have a lot of friendships that are in 'good friend' territory when we're in the same place, but otherwise go dormant for long periods. I'm ok with this and generally don't feel a need to try to change this dynamic with people. I guess they aren't close friends in exactly the way that you're describing, but they are definitely a lot more than acquaintances. In a strange way I even feel that it can be a testament to the strength of the underlying friendship that we can pick up where we left off after years of minimal contact. I'm actually grateful for these kinds of relationships. I really don't have the time, energy, or desire to keep up ongoing text/email/social media conversations with all these people, but when we are able to meet up I have a great time and find it hugely valuable.
• rchaud 4y ago
  > There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it (so long as you're not a total monster) This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years. Back then, you are constantly meeting new people, and seeing them regularly in class and on campus. People that age don't have a "max occupancy" number when it comes to making friends. As an adult in the working world, the opposite is true. Outside of that uni environment, a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again. Most people cannot make a first impression that good. Outside of school/uni, people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers. Friendship groups begin to quickly narrow around this time as well, as people get married, go to professional schooling of some kind, and start hanging out mostly with people that are very similar to them.
  • crummy 4y ago
    Isn't there supposed to be an epidemic of loneliness amongst many adults?
    • whatshisface 4y ago
      It sounds like a paradox that there would be simultaneous epidemics of loneliness and and standoffishness but they cause each other. In one direction the cause is obvious, in the other lack of socialization causes people's "calibration" to go off as their learned tolerance to unexpected things fades. Real social interactions involve a lot of imperfection and what you sometimes see is that without being desensitized, lonely people's standards can be unreachable. (Other commenters have alluded to this being a result of hyper stimulation on TikTok but it predates it.)
    • rchaud 4y ago
      Yes, because adults in general have less time to spend with friends than someone who's younger, more mobile (live downtown vs the suburbs) and has fewer responsibilities. But loneliness is up among all generations, including those who are in the right time and right place (post-secondary). Many reasons for this as well, including the impact of internet and social media. People are less willing to give others a chance because Tinder/Tiktok/IG has trained them to think that another more interesting experience could be right around the corner.
• agumonkey 4y ago
  It's not only social anxiety that forbids people. It's also failed relationships that bruise your desire to try again. In my case I failed people enough time not to want to bother someone else :)
  • bgroat 4y ago
    It's interesting to me that you think you failed people. I roll my eyes when I hear quotes like, "Judge a fish by it's ability to fly and you'll think it's a failure"... but there is something to that. Maybe you're chocolate and those people just prefer vanilla?
• krageon 4y ago
  > There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it This is true, but only if you're attractive and somewhat charismatic. I would say that means it doesn't apply to the majority of people (who are plain or ugly and not particularly charismatic or actively repulsive).
  • bgroat 4y ago
    I'd say it's true if you're aren't unattractive (basically nail personal grooming), and are somewhat interested in someone else.
    • krageon 4y ago
      That is already far above most people, so I think I agree :)
• WallabyEV 4y ago
  I found positive social interaction as a baseline really rings true - a smile and the nod type thing - post-lockdown in Texas. Great to practice manners again and laugh at mixing up direction of traffic in the grocery store. Bumbling around in a mask in a hurry was not pleasant, this is nicer so I behave the same!