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Protesting lockdowns in China == pro-democracy Protesting lockdowns in USA == "fascism" That's the pattern here. Anything that goes farther than what the US g

Protesting lockdowns in China == pro-democracy Protesting lockdowns in USA == "fascism" That's the pattern here. Anything that goes farther than what the US govt is doing is authoritarian. Anything critical of what the US govt is doing is "fascism" Sorry, no room for double standards here Inb4 a bunch of people who feel the need to shill for the US govt start "explaining" to me why I'm "mistaken" about this

IshKebab 4y ago
Kind of rare to see conspiracy nuts of this level on HN.
- hellfish 4y ago
  Kind of rare to see someone respond to something so dismissively and non-constructively on hn
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    Well you said something that is obviously ridiculous and you said you won't listen to anything anyone says so I didn't think there was much point trying to be constructive.
    - hellfish 4y ago
      > you said you won't listen to anything anyone says wasn't the intended meaning
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      FWIW, ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder. Parent did indicate the inflation of the word 'fascism' and uneven application of the term to same type of event ( "lockdown" ) under two different systems with one of the overlapping values being media portrayal. In other words, it may be worthwhile to prove poster wrong with facts.
      - IshKebab 4y ago
        > FWIW, ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder Only sometimes. Implying that the American lockdown is the same as the Chinese one is obviously untrue. If I call you ridiculous for thinking that Sweden is just as oppressive as North Korea you wouldn't say "well that's a matter of opinion" would you?(assuming you're not an idiot)
        A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
        I don't disagree in an abstract, but the issue I have is with an argument that relies on 'obvious' as a flag. Not everything is obvious ( and most things could be argued ). In fact, some things may appear obvious only to be lost in the sea of nuance. This is the reason I object to arguing along the lines of obviousness. North Korea and Sweden are very different countries in just about every way I can think of. It would take a tremendous stretch of language ( and rather ignorant audience ) to convincingly argue that Sweden is just as oppressive. With America and China it is not as straightforward a comparison, because those countries do share some interesting characteristics so less of a stretch is needed. The issue gets muddled, however because the word lockdown is discussed without any nuance attached to it. In US, it was challenged in courts and people ( clearly ) mostly did what they wanted to do ( that said, some businesses got fined heavily ) despite heavy media shaming, whereas in China lockdowns included stories ( among others ) of sealing off entire buildings without allowing their denizens for any way out. Despite the same word, those two approaches are very different in application ( edit: and results ).
        IshKebab 4y ago
        Ok maybe I should have said "obvious if you have read anything at all about China's covid lockdowns". I think it was fair to assume that he had read at least something about them given his strong opinions on the matter.
        hellfish 4y ago
        > Implying that the American lockdown is the same as the Chinese one Wasn't what was said in my comment. It was about protests of the lockdowns and the govt/media response to said protests Did you only skim read my comment before posting a one sentence reply?
squarefoot 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hellfish 4y ago
  > because they believed the conspiracy theories spread online by some idiots, if not criminals with shady agendas. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard the same rhetoric out of the CCP's mouth with respect to the current protestors
- bsaul 4y ago
  Sorry what ?? i feel like i’ve lived on a different planet. First, the reason people in the west lift lockdown has absolutely nothing to do with mrna vaccines, but with the fact that since omicron variant, covid is one or two orders of magnitudes less lethal than before, which means actually something close to the flu or less (for real this time). Second, i have no idea how you got the idea that we were quick at adapting vaccines for variants. The 2021 vaccines were based of covid 19 variant, and were the ones used up to the third shot, in the late 2021 / beginning 2022, at least here in france. I’m not even sure what people are using now for the vaccine, as i don’t know anyone who took a shot since omicron. Finally, trying to conflate fringe people believing in crazy theories with all the other good reasons for protesting against 2021 lockdowns or vaccine status pass, or health workers being fired (which, imho were completely legitimate causes), is a tactic used by governments to mute contrarian opinions. Pretty much like what the chinese regime is doing right now.
jerryzh 4y ago
Are you suggesting that any country that has a prison is actually a fascism camp? Use your brain before talking plz.
- hellfish 4y ago
  ??? No idea how you got that out of my comment
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
The lockdowns in China are entirely different from what took place in the US. People in the US were just asked to stay home if at all possible. Some businesses and schools were forced to close. Grocery stores stayed open; public transit kept running; people moved freely in and out of cities.
- hellfish 4y ago
  Not denying this because it's obvious, but I wrote the above comment bc the US and western countries (and Australia especially) could have handled this without censorship or the authoritarian tendencies demonstrated
afpx 4y ago
I think a lot of people in the US (and maybe most democratic countries) want China to become a democracy. So, when we see these protests, we feel like they're headed in that direction.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
yucky 4y ago
We see the same thing with war. When the US invades other countries it's "to spread freedom and democracy".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

IshKebab 4y ago

Kind of rare to see conspiracy nuts of this level on HN.

hellfish 4y ago
Kind of rare to see someone respond to something so dismissively and non-constructively on hn
- IshKebab 4y ago
  Well you said something that is obviously ridiculous and you said you won't listen to anything anyone says so I didn't think there was much point trying to be constructive.
  - hellfish 4y ago
    > you said you won't listen to anything anyone says wasn't the intended meaning
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    FWIW, ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder. Parent did indicate the inflation of the word 'fascism' and uneven application of the term to same type of event ( "lockdown" ) under two different systems with one of the overlapping values being media portrayal. In other words, it may be worthwhile to prove poster wrong with facts.
    - IshKebab 4y ago
      > FWIW, ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder Only sometimes. Implying that the American lockdown is the same as the Chinese one is obviously untrue. If I call you ridiculous for thinking that Sweden is just as oppressive as North Korea you wouldn't say "well that's a matter of opinion" would you?(assuming you're not an idiot)
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
        I don't disagree in an abstract, but the issue I have is with an argument that relies on 'obvious' as a flag. Not everything is obvious ( and most things could be argued ). In fact, some things may appear obvious only to be lost in the sea of nuance. This is the reason I object to arguing along the lines of obviousness. North Korea and Sweden are very different countries in just about every way I can think of. It would take a tremendous stretch of language ( and rather ignorant audience ) to convincingly argue that Sweden is just as oppressive. With America and China it is not as straightforward a comparison, because those countries do share some interesting characteristics so less of a stretch is needed. The issue gets muddled, however because the word lockdown is discussed without any nuance attached to it. In US, it was challenged in courts and people ( clearly ) mostly did what they wanted to do ( that said, some businesses got fined heavily ) despite heavy media shaming, whereas in China lockdowns included stories ( among others ) of sealing off entire buildings without allowing their denizens for any way out. Despite the same word, those two approaches are very different in application ( edit: and results ).
        IshKebab 4y ago
        Ok maybe I should have said "obvious if you have read anything at all about China's covid lockdowns". I think it was fair to assume that he had read at least something about them given his strong opinions on the matter.
      - hellfish 4y ago
        > Implying that the American lockdown is the same as the Chinese one Wasn't what was said in my comment. It was about protests of the lockdowns and the govt/media response to said protests Did you only skim read my comment before posting a one sentence reply?

squarefoot 4y ago

[flagged]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hellfish 4y ago
> because they believed the conspiracy theories spread online by some idiots, if not criminals with shady agendas. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard the same rhetoric out of the CCP's mouth with respect to the current protestors
bsaul 4y ago
Sorry what ?? i feel like i’ve lived on a different planet. First, the reason people in the west lift lockdown has absolutely nothing to do with mrna vaccines, but with the fact that since omicron variant, covid is one or two orders of magnitudes less lethal than before, which means actually something close to the flu or less (for real this time). Second, i have no idea how you got the idea that we were quick at adapting vaccines for variants. The 2021 vaccines were based of covid 19 variant, and were the ones used up to the third shot, in the late 2021 / beginning 2022, at least here in france. I’m not even sure what people are using now for the vaccine, as i don’t know anyone who took a shot since omicron. Finally, trying to conflate fringe people believing in crazy theories with all the other good reasons for protesting against 2021 lockdowns or vaccine status pass, or health workers being fired (which, imho were completely legitimate causes), is a tactic used by governments to mute contrarian opinions. Pretty much like what the chinese regime is doing right now.

jerryzh 4y ago

Are you suggesting that any country that has a prison is actually a fascism camp? Use your brain before talking plz.

hellfish 4y ago
??? No idea how you got that out of my comment

Wowfunhappy 4y ago

The lockdowns in China are entirely different from what took place in the US. People in the US were just asked to stay home if at all possible. Some businesses and schools were forced to close. Grocery stores stayed open; public transit kept running; people moved freely in and out of cities.

hellfish 4y ago
Not denying this because it's obvious, but I wrote the above comment bc the US and western countries (and Australia especially) could have handled this without censorship or the authoritarian tendencies demonstrated

afpx 4y ago

I think a lot of people in the US (and maybe most democratic countries) want China to become a democracy. So, when we see these protests, we feel like they're headed in that direction.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

yucky 4y ago

We see the same thing with war. When the US invades other countries it's "to spread freedom and democracy".

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]