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ELI5: The US and China are not very good friends, but Chinese goods still get sold to US markets. China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or s

ELI5: The US and China are not very good friends, but Chinese goods still get sold to US markets. China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or so it is suspected, since this is routinely denied by the companies and the Chinese gov't. Some of those companies make computers that can watch and listen to us, whether we ask them to or not. The US is no longer comfortable with that arrangement. Of course, it's a little more complex than that...

skorpeon87 4y ago
> China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or so it is suspected Not merely suspected, it's a matter of Chinese law that the Party is represented in any company large enough for them to take notice of.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  - skorpeon87 4y ago
    Sorry, it's not clear what you think I'm wrong about or what you're trying to say at all. Can you please clarify? Preferably without the insults and layered sarcasm.
  - protoc 4y ago
    there is no connection between rich powerful companies in the us and government /s
    - beebeepka 4y ago
      I also get modded down when I remind these guys Desert Storm was televised on CNN. Oh well, it's a us site
  - dang 4y ago
    Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? We've already asked you this more than once. Your comment would be fine without that swipe. Perhaps not very substantive (you could make this argument better with more information in it), but at least not a gross violation of the guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
somenameforme 4y ago
The way you're framing makes it sound unique to China. PRISM [1] hasn't gone anywhere and has certainly only expanded since the leaks. Google, Apple, Microsoft, and many others were all participating companies. If China starts stooping to the same level here they would be obligated to ban products from these companies and more. If they want to make a spectacle of it, they could even have a kangaroo court committee hearing where they ask these companies about their relationship to the NSA and other alphabet agencies. Any country operating in any country anywhere is going to subject to the whims and influences of the government in their home country. Some make it more or less overt, but pretending this is some discovery or "them vs us" thing is absurd. This whole affair is another step in the apparent goal of escalation with China, to what purpose - I have no clue. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
- chitowneats 4y ago
  It is absolutely them vs. us. We can choose to respond to their provocations or not, but they will continue them. The more the techno-libertarian crowd denies this, the more irrelevant you become.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    One can argue that PRISM was in place long before China was doing anything real. So US and allies set the tone of this global topic decades ago. China decided they will go their own way, because they could. This is all just a theatre as mentioned, long term planned escalation with some form of conflict inevitable. Not judging, it makes sense for each side to act as they do, but these congress hearings were a farce with decided outcome long before they were even announced, not some fair public discussion.
    - selectodude 4y ago
      Two decades ago, the Chinese military was actively raiding Nortel's IP directly from their servers. Regardless of when and what the US government is doing, Huawei and ZTE's tech is built off of rampant state-sponsored IP theft and shouldn't be used and can't be trusted. https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita...

skorpeon87 4y ago

> China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or so it is suspected Not merely suspected, it's a matter of Chinese law that the Party is represented in any company large enough for them to take notice of.

beebeepka 4y ago
- skorpeon87 4y ago
  Sorry, it's not clear what you think I'm wrong about or what you're trying to say at all. Can you please clarify? Preferably without the insults and layered sarcasm.
- protoc 4y ago
  there is no connection between rich powerful companies in the us and government /s
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    I also get modded down when I remind these guys Desert Storm was televised on CNN. Oh well, it's a us site
- dang 4y ago
  Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? We've already asked you this more than once. Your comment would be fine without that swipe. Perhaps not very substantive (you could make this argument better with more information in it), but at least not a gross violation of the guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

somenameforme 4y ago

The way you're framing makes it sound unique to China. PRISM [1] hasn't gone anywhere and has certainly only expanded since the leaks. Google, Apple, Microsoft, and many others were all participating companies. If China starts stooping to the same level here they would be obligated to ban products from these companies and more. If they want to make a spectacle of it, they could even have a kangaroo court committee hearing where they ask these companies about their relationship to the NSA and other alphabet agencies. Any country operating in any country anywhere is going to subject to the whims and influences of the government in their home country. Some make it more or less overt, but pretending this is some discovery or "them vs us" thing is absurd. This whole affair is another step in the apparent goal of escalation with China, to what purpose - I have no clue. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM

chitowneats 4y ago
It is absolutely them vs. us. We can choose to respond to their provocations or not, but they will continue them. The more the techno-libertarian crowd denies this, the more irrelevant you become.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  One can argue that PRISM was in place long before China was doing anything real. So US and allies set the tone of this global topic decades ago. China decided they will go their own way, because they could. This is all just a theatre as mentioned, long term planned escalation with some form of conflict inevitable. Not judging, it makes sense for each side to act as they do, but these congress hearings were a farce with decided outcome long before they were even announced, not some fair public discussion.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    Two decades ago, the Chinese military was actively raiding Nortel's IP directly from their servers. Regardless of when and what the US government is doing, Huawei and ZTE's tech is built off of rampant state-sponsored IP theft and shouldn't be used and can't be trusted. https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-military-attack-on-nortel/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7275588/inside-the-chinese-milita...