8 ms·

Tax filing websites have been sending users’ financial information to Facebook

280 points by dannykwells 4y ago

xorcist 4y ago
"Tax filing websites" is a strange invention. Tax should be filled with the tax office. Involving third parties in the process can only make things more complex. Even if that market should grow and attract entrepreneurs it's all artificial rent seeking, and not positive for the economy at large.
- fuzzy2 4y ago
  Allow me to present the strangest thing then: A tax filing website – made by the tax office! Such a thing exists, in Germany, aptly named „Elster“ (magpie).
yumraj 4y ago
FB lays off 11,000 people. I overcome my hate for FB and feel a little bit of sympathy for these people, might even want to hire a few if/when situation presents itself. Then I read this, I’m reminded of what FB is and who all created this system, all sympathy vanishes.
donutshop 4y ago
Could anyone comment on simpletax?
nerdjon 4y ago
I hate this situation so much. I can block a lot with my browser but then often websites stop working, so while that is a solution since I have the technical knowledge to handle it there is no way in hell I am going to tell my parents to install something that will block this stuff. Throw in the tracking in apps and potential server side tracking that there is nothing I can do about. We need some serious laws to be implemented. I have removed Facebook and google as much out of my life as possible, but they still collect data about me without my consent and it is very frustrating. I despise that other people can consent to have my data given to these companies (by my data being on their devices as my phone number, texts, whatever) and then these companies can consent for me to have my data sent just by going to their website.
- taylodl 4y ago
  Serious laws have been implemented in the countries we bemoan for being "socialist." This is free market capitalism doing its thing. Just remember this when you hear the libertarians blather on about government and how the market will sort this all out. Uh-huh.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"This is free market capitalism doing its thing." This "free capitalism" does not mind when Government protects their copyright, patents etc. etc. They should not mind Government protecting us either. Otherwise let's get even and remove their protections. Then see how they like it.
    - taylodl 4y ago
      Reminds me of the big bank bailouts in 2008 - capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down. They only want to win, never lose. They will rapidly switch between whatever "ism" is needed to ensure they always win.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
    Without the socialist government robbing you through taxes there would be no need for the "tax websites" so there would be nothing to send to facebook.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  Those are the kinds of moments I wish I had some charisma and run for an office myself, because I genuinely feel I lack any kind of real representation as a constituent. The issue, however, is simple. There is real money on the table so anyone even thinking of running ( and making a change ) must be able to withstand likely quick and solid stomp, must be techy enough to understand the risks and PRy enough to be able to move in today's media landscape. Those skills tend of be somewhat rare on their own. Combination of those traits is likely more rare. << Throw in the tracking in apps and potential server side tracking that there is nothing I can do about. And after that, almost inevitable hacks ( inevitable due to misaligned incentives for companies ).
sphars 4y ago
> The data, sent through widely used code called the Meta Pixel, includes not only information like names and email addresses but often even more detailed information, including data on users’ income, filing status, refund amounts, and dependents’ college scholarship amounts The investigators on this have included some of the data they saw being shared that you can see at their GitHub[0] [0]: https://github.com/the-markup/meta-pixel-taxes https://github.com/the-markup/meta-pixel-taxes
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
moolcool 4y ago
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  I don't work in the industry, but what would you say to the people that do work at Meta who have good intentions and rationalize it by thinking to themselves, 'At least I can try to limit how bad they are, and if they didn't hire a good person like me, they would just hire a bad person doesn't care about the public.'?
  - MSFT_Edging 4y ago
    They're honestly lying to themselves to rationalize their choice to be paid a lot to do bad things. At the end of the day, we all live under this system and are forced to participate.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns
  - cbtacy 4y ago
    If they have no other job prospects, are on an H1B visa, and are thus trapped at Meta I'd say "I'm so sorry." Otherwise I'd say, "You DO know you're directly contributing to the decline of humanity and destruction of millions of lives, yes?"
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    What would a facebook run only by a person who "doesn't care about the public" look like and how could it be worse than knowingly manipulating what depressed teenages see on their feed, which is a thing current facebook did? If there IS anyone "good" in facebook, they don't have nearly the effect they hope, facebook isn't being reigned in at all.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  It's not just the social web. Google is almost as bad and their social media platform failed spectacularly. Advertising as an industry has no limits to what they'll collect and how they'll use it.
mindslight 4y ago
So much web software shamelessly includes malware. When you need proprietary software to do anything sensitive, a better approach is to pirate an installable software package, install and fully update it, make sure it works, kill the VM's Internet access and never reenable it, and communicate only via Samba on the local network. This takes care of OS, developer, and distributor malware in one fell swoop. (I agree with another comment saying we need privacy legislation that would stop this sort of thing, but in the mean time the only thing you can change is yourself)
- mistrial9 4y ago
  hah! - this is getting downvotes and yet there is some truth in it. Anyone with experience over time has seen the erosion of privacy and repeated data leaks from consumer-facing companies.. in the case of tax preparation software, leaking explicitly private and sensitive financial details with names and unique identifying information, directly. What choice is there when commercial companies push user-hostile and perhaps directly illegal leaks like this? I will not advocate software piracy on a sealed VM like the pp here, but please consider the skill, time and effort it takes to write acceptable consumer software, as a direct barrier to entry for "fair" players, and then add network effects.. With that, consider the personal productivity software that has been built slowly and well over two decades in an open way.. where the user of the software has the right and ability to examine, modify and use the code. I predict that intrusion and forced-interference into tax transactions will increase over time in almost every jurisdiction around the world. There really is no better time than now to re-examine your own practices with software on the open net.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    You could pay for the software and do the same thing. But if you still have to spend so much effort making sure the publisher isn't attacking you, what obligation do you have? It's a low trust economy and thus law of the jungle. A privacy law akin to the GDPR could increase the level of trust and support straightforwardly participating in that economy. All we have right now is the dumpster fire drumbeat of whichever companies were found abusing their users this week, with vanishingly small reason to not keep doing it once they're out of the limelight.
benjaminbachman 4y ago
"If you aren't the customer, you're the product" apparently is a lie. You're the product no matter what. Unless I missed it in the article, I doubt paying $100 for the advanced tax prep excluded me from this.
- inkcapmushroom 4y ago
  No way the companies whose job is to find loopholes to save a couple bucks would leave that money on the table.
- arrosenberg 4y ago
  You are Facebook's product and TaxAct's potential customer. TaxAct is sending that data so they can ad-target you to sell you tax software.
snowpid 4y ago
It is important to say, and it is simply not mentioned, that this problem is an American problem.
- xnorswap 4y ago
  These problems while not uniquely American, are certainly made worse by the US attitude to both data privacy and tax returns.
  - snowpid 4y ago
    Could you give examples from countries with similar problems?
    - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
      If you think these companies aren't doing this in every country then I have a pixel to sell you
      - snowpid 4y ago
        Thanks to GDPR I can use this website https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/ https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/ without Third Party Cookies (example for German taxes)
      - c-cube 4y ago
        In some other countries (many? Most? idk) you file taxes directly on the government's website. No private third party is involved. In France for example, in a simple case (employee) it can take as low as few minutes to file your taxes for the year. Contrast that to the US dystopic situation where lobbying by TurboTax and the likes pushes people to pay to file their taxes.
sys_64738 4y ago
Hopefully Facebook will self-implode with Zuck's Metaverse taking the whole org with it. Call your Congress person and ask them if they're being sponsored by the likes of FB or these tax webpages. Then ask them to stand up for your consumer rights.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Out with facebook, in with tiktok.
  - sys_64738 4y ago
    You're not wrong that something will always fill the void left.
- perfectstorm 4y ago
  someone else will replace them and have their own version of FB pixel. government needs to put a stop to these shady practices but that's too much work, isn't it? who is going fund their next election campaign if they act tough. Meanwhile the US government is spending $15 million (https://www.propublica.org/article/files-taxes-free-inflation-reduction-act https://www.propublica.org/article/files-taxes-free-inflatio...) to study free tax filing. the keyword is study, not implement.
datavirtue 4y ago
Of course! Why not?
kova12 4y ago
What. The. Fuck. Tax is arguably on the same level of confidently as health data, and companies entrusted with this information just sells it off? Tax was supposed about giving government your money. There wasn't supposed to be private information disclosed as a result of filling taxes. This is beyond outrageous What. The. Fuck...
0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
Will add this to the long list of reasons why Facebook employees should not act indignant when the public assumes the worst from their employer.
Animats 4y ago
What happens if you send MetaPixel a CCPA demand?
musicale 4y ago
Because of course they have. That being said, credit bureaus and data brokers seem just as bad as Facebook, just less visible.

280 points by dannykwells 4y ago

"Tax filing websites" is a strange invention. Tax should be filled with the tax office. Involving third parties in the process can only make things more complex. Even if that market should grow and attract entrepreneurs it's all artificial rent seeking, and not positive for the economy at large.

fuzzy2 4y ago
Allow me to present the strangest thing then: A tax filing website – made by the tax office! Such a thing exists, in Germany, aptly named „Elster“ (magpie).

yumraj 4y ago

FB lays off 11,000 people. I overcome my hate for FB and feel a little bit of sympathy for these people, might even want to hire a few if/when situation presents itself. Then I read this, I’m reminded of what FB is and who all created this system, all sympathy vanishes.

donutshop 4y ago

Could anyone comment on simpletax?

nerdjon 4y ago

I hate this situation so much. I can block a lot with my browser but then often websites stop working, so while that is a solution since I have the technical knowledge to handle it there is no way in hell I am going to tell my parents to install something that will block this stuff. Throw in the tracking in apps and potential server side tracking that there is nothing I can do about. We need some serious laws to be implemented. I have removed Facebook and google as much out of my life as possible, but they still collect data about me without my consent and it is very frustrating. I despise that other people can consent to have my data given to these companies (by my data being on their devices as my phone number, texts, whatever) and then these companies can consent for me to have my data sent just by going to their website.

taylodl 4y ago
Serious laws have been implemented in the countries we bemoan for being "socialist." This is free market capitalism doing its thing. Just remember this when you hear the libertarians blather on about government and how the market will sort this all out. Uh-huh.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"This is free market capitalism doing its thing." This "free capitalism" does not mind when Government protects their copyright, patents etc. etc. They should not mind Government protecting us either. Otherwise let's get even and remove their protections. Then see how they like it.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    Reminds me of the big bank bailouts in 2008 - capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down. They only want to win, never lose. They will rapidly switch between whatever "ism" is needed to ensure they always win.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
  Without the socialist government robbing you through taxes there would be no need for the "tax websites" so there would be nothing to send to facebook.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Those are the kinds of moments I wish I had some charisma and run for an office myself, because I genuinely feel I lack any kind of real representation as a constituent. The issue, however, is simple. There is real money on the table so anyone even thinking of running ( and making a change ) must be able to withstand likely quick and solid stomp, must be techy enough to understand the risks and PRy enough to be able to move in today's media landscape. Those skills tend of be somewhat rare on their own. Combination of those traits is likely more rare. << Throw in the tracking in apps and potential server side tracking that there is nothing I can do about. And after that, almost inevitable hacks ( inevitable due to misaligned incentives for companies ).

sphars 4y ago

> The data, sent through widely used code called the Meta Pixel, includes not only information like names and email addresses but often even more detailed information, including data on users’ income, filing status, refund amounts, and dependents’ college scholarship amounts The investigators on this have included some of the data they saw being shared that you can see at their GitHub[0] [0]: https://github.com/the-markup/meta-pixel-taxes https://github.com/the-markup/meta-pixel-taxes

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

moolcool 4y ago

MerelyMortal 4y ago
I don't work in the industry, but what would you say to the people that do work at Meta who have good intentions and rationalize it by thinking to themselves, 'At least I can try to limit how bad they are, and if they didn't hire a good person like me, they would just hire a bad person doesn't care about the public.'?
- MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  They're honestly lying to themselves to rationalize their choice to be paid a lot to do bad things. At the end of the day, we all live under this system and are forced to participate.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Eichmanns
- cbtacy 4y ago
  If they have no other job prospects, are on an H1B visa, and are thus trapped at Meta I'd say "I'm so sorry." Otherwise I'd say, "You DO know you're directly contributing to the decline of humanity and destruction of millions of lives, yes?"
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  What would a facebook run only by a person who "doesn't care about the public" look like and how could it be worse than knowingly manipulating what depressed teenages see on their feed, which is a thing current facebook did? If there IS anyone "good" in facebook, they don't have nearly the effect they hope, facebook isn't being reigned in at all.
AlexandrB 4y ago
It's not just the social web. Google is almost as bad and their social media platform failed spectacularly. Advertising as an industry has no limits to what they'll collect and how they'll use it.

mindslight 4y ago

So much web software shamelessly includes malware. When you need proprietary software to do anything sensitive, a better approach is to pirate an installable software package, install and fully update it, make sure it works, kill the VM's Internet access and never reenable it, and communicate only via Samba on the local network. This takes care of OS, developer, and distributor malware in one fell swoop. (I agree with another comment saying we need privacy legislation that would stop this sort of thing, but in the mean time the only thing you can change is yourself)

mistrial9 4y ago
hah! - this is getting downvotes and yet there is some truth in it. Anyone with experience over time has seen the erosion of privacy and repeated data leaks from consumer-facing companies.. in the case of tax preparation software, leaking explicitly private and sensitive financial details with names and unique identifying information, directly. What choice is there when commercial companies push user-hostile and perhaps directly illegal leaks like this? I will not advocate software piracy on a sealed VM like the pp here, but please consider the skill, time and effort it takes to write acceptable consumer software, as a direct barrier to entry for "fair" players, and then add network effects.. With that, consider the personal productivity software that has been built slowly and well over two decades in an open way.. where the user of the software has the right and ability to examine, modify and use the code. I predict that intrusion and forced-interference into tax transactions will increase over time in almost every jurisdiction around the world. There really is no better time than now to re-examine your own practices with software on the open net.
- mindslight 4y ago
  You could pay for the software and do the same thing. But if you still have to spend so much effort making sure the publisher isn't attacking you, what obligation do you have? It's a low trust economy and thus law of the jungle. A privacy law akin to the GDPR could increase the level of trust and support straightforwardly participating in that economy. All we have right now is the dumpster fire drumbeat of whichever companies were found abusing their users this week, with vanishingly small reason to not keep doing it once they're out of the limelight.

benjaminbachman 4y ago

"If you aren't the customer, you're the product" apparently is a lie. You're the product no matter what. Unless I missed it in the article, I doubt paying $100 for the advanced tax prep excluded me from this.

inkcapmushroom 4y ago
No way the companies whose job is to find loopholes to save a couple bucks would leave that money on the table.
arrosenberg 4y ago
You are Facebook's product and TaxAct's potential customer. TaxAct is sending that data so they can ad-target you to sell you tax software.

snowpid 4y ago

It is important to say, and it is simply not mentioned, that this problem is an American problem.

xnorswap 4y ago
These problems while not uniquely American, are certainly made worse by the US attitude to both data privacy and tax returns.
- snowpid 4y ago
  Could you give examples from countries with similar problems?
  - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
    If you think these companies aren't doing this in every country then I have a pixel to sell you
    - snowpid 4y ago
      Thanks to GDPR I can use this website https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/ https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/ without Third Party Cookies (example for German taxes)
    - c-cube 4y ago
      In some other countries (many? Most? idk) you file taxes directly on the government's website. No private third party is involved. In France for example, in a simple case (employee) it can take as low as few minutes to file your taxes for the year. Contrast that to the US dystopic situation where lobbying by TurboTax and the likes pushes people to pay to file their taxes.

sys_64738 4y ago

Hopefully Facebook will self-implode with Zuck's Metaverse taking the whole org with it. Call your Congress person and ask them if they're being sponsored by the likes of FB or these tax webpages. Then ask them to stand up for your consumer rights.

postalrat 4y ago
Out with facebook, in with tiktok.
- sys_64738 4y ago
  You're not wrong that something will always fill the void left.
perfectstorm 4y ago
someone else will replace them and have their own version of FB pixel. government needs to put a stop to these shady practices but that's too much work, isn't it? who is going fund their next election campaign if they act tough. Meanwhile the US government is spending $15 million (https://www.propublica.org/article/files-taxes-free-inflation-reduction-act https://www.propublica.org/article/files-taxes-free-inflatio...) to study free tax filing. the keyword is study, not implement.

datavirtue 4y ago

Of course! Why not?

kova12 4y ago

What. The. Fuck. Tax is arguably on the same level of confidently as health data, and companies entrusted with this information just sells it off? Tax was supposed about giving government your money. There wasn't supposed to be private information disclosed as a result of filling taxes. This is beyond outrageous What. The. Fuck...

0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago

Will add this to the long list of reasons why Facebook employees should not act indignant when the public assumes the worst from their employer.

Animats 4y ago

What happens if you send MetaPixel a CCPA demand?

musicale 4y ago

Because of course they have. That being said, credit bureaus and data brokers seem just as bad as Facebook, just less visible.