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Does Discord even have a corporate presence in the EU? For the French government to be fining companies because they happen to dislike the UI is such a random a

Does Discord even have a corporate presence in the EU? For the French government to be fining companies because they happen to dislike the UI is such a random and unpredictable decision that it seems like a strong signal for US firms to not set up offices in the EU at all.

tephra 4y ago
Indeed it looks like they have a company in the Netherlands https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047-Related-Companies https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047-...
femboy 4y ago
GDPR applies to all companies that provide services to EU residents.
- acedTrex 4y ago
  Technically applies and realistically applies are two very different things.
- knaekhoved 4y ago
  The EU can certainly claim any absurd jurisdiction they like, but how are they planning to enforce this? Ultimately it seems the primary thing they can do is censor Discord from EU internet.
  - tephra 4y ago
    They have a company in the EU which makes it quite easy to enforce given that EU companies must follow EU law.
  - Stranger43 4y ago
    The real world enforcement would be for the EU to Freeze all money transfer from the EU to said company. essentially making it a cost only proposition for that company to keep trying to sell to European customers. Sure shady people will dream up all sorts of fancy money laundering schemes to make it looks like there is no transfers but those are already illegal as fraud on both side of the Atlantic with potential jail times. The EU don't have to block any content to efficiently enforce GDPR against US companies trying to market profitably in the EU.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Which Discord would very much not want, since for major internet businesses the EU is generally at least 20% of their income, if they know what they're doing. The EU GDP is about 75% of the US one, it's a huge market.
tyfon 4y ago
They accept money from EU customers so, yes
- knaekhoved 4y ago
  If I accept money from a Chinese guy, that doesn't make me subject to Chinese law.
  - BurningPenguin 4y ago
    If you are a business, that does business in some other country, you also have to comply to their local laws. Even if you don't have a presence there.
  - kome 4y ago
    If the Chinese guy is based in China, and he is paying with his hard earned Renminbi yes, you are subject to Chinese law.
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    Nevertheless Chinese government can start seizing your assets in China and transfers from or to you where other participant is in China. And arrest you in case of visiting place within Chinese jurisdiction. Unfun fact: there were multiple cases of people getting arrested after plane performed unexpected emergency landing in a country where landing was not planned. Both where arrest was justified and where it was not.
  - tyfon 4y ago
    If you set up a company that accepts money from Chinese citizens and let them do stuff online I am pretty sure your company will be subject to Chinese law, yes.
  - oblio 4y ago
    As a one-off donation? Probably not. As a business? For sure. Not for every aspect of Chinese law, but for relevant ones and with enforcement in China or through mutual agreements with other governments. This kind of comment is disappointing. It shows a major lack of understanding of how law and businesses work, coated in a huge layer of outrage, all wrapped up in a Twitter-length type comment.
morjom 4y ago
They seem to have some kind of presence in The Netherlands, if their job postings are anything to go by. Also How is this UI design? Wouldn't this fall under UX or just basic functionality? I press X, program close. If I want it minimized I press the minimize button.
FamosoRandom 4y ago
it's not so simple as "disliking the UI", it's about the UI/UX being clear enough that the user understand what he is doing in order to not be harmed by it in any way (disclosing personnal information for instance). Simply imagine that the user thought that, by clicking the "X" button, he closed the app and got off the vocal channel so that now nobody can hear him. Now a close relative ask him some other personnal info that he don't want to share (Health info, credit card etc..), and other people in the vocal channel hear it. Well, the user has been harmed. So yeah, not about "disliking the UI" but about protecting you, the user
- debugnik 4y ago
  > Simply imagine that the user thought that, by clicking the "X" button, he closed the app Do most users think that, though? I remember chat apps minimising to the tray bar since MSN Messenger and Skype, possibly earlier, and it's a common feature in most current ones, as well as in other applications. Now, it's true that some other chat apps display a floating panel to remind you that you're still in voice chat, but Discord's target audience is videogame players that don't want their media covered by such panel anyway, and most other chat apps let you close or disable such panel as well. Game consoles don't do so either. I agree with the other points in the case, but this UX design being a GDPR issue makes it clear these people are out of touch with the market.
  - FamosoRandom 4y ago
    Look at your web browser. If you click on the "x" on a open tab, it will most likely close it. If you click on the "x" on your browser, it will close the browser, maybe will it alert you that you're going to close many things. Open Microsoft Excel or Microsoft Word, Notepad, your Windows file explorer, same thing. Those are probably the most used app in the world, so people will assume that it is what the "x" button does.
    - debugnik 4y ago
      None of those are supposed to stay on the background (specially not browsers, which are sandboxes for untrusted apps nowadays). But if I click X on my email client, it keeps receiving email; if I click X on my torrent app or JDownloader, they keep downloading; if I click X on Steam, it keeps updating my games; and if I click X on a chat application, it keeps receiving messages and, yes, usually keeps voice chat open. And BTW, browser tabs sadly do stay open in a twisted way: notifications, often malicious for the kind of users that accept the prompts without reading.
conradfr 4y ago
Technically the Cnil is independent from the government. https://www.cnil.fr/en/node/287 https://www.cnil.fr/en/node/287
debugnik 4y ago
> Does Discord even have a corporate presence in the EU? They keep bothering me to pay for Nitro and just pushed a notification that they've added new payment options for my country, so they're clearly targeting the EU market.

tephra 4y ago

Indeed it looks like they have a company in the Netherlands https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047-Related-Companies https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410339409047-...

femboy 4y ago

GDPR applies to all companies that provide services to EU residents.

acedTrex 4y ago
Technically applies and realistically applies are two very different things.
knaekhoved 4y ago
The EU can certainly claim any absurd jurisdiction they like, but how are they planning to enforce this? Ultimately it seems the primary thing they can do is censor Discord from EU internet.
- tephra 4y ago
  They have a company in the EU which makes it quite easy to enforce given that EU companies must follow EU law.
- Stranger43 4y ago
  The real world enforcement would be for the EU to Freeze all money transfer from the EU to said company. essentially making it a cost only proposition for that company to keep trying to sell to European customers. Sure shady people will dream up all sorts of fancy money laundering schemes to make it looks like there is no transfers but those are already illegal as fraud on both side of the Atlantic with potential jail times. The EU don't have to block any content to efficiently enforce GDPR against US companies trying to market profitably in the EU.
- oblio 4y ago
  Which Discord would very much not want, since for major internet businesses the EU is generally at least 20% of their income, if they know what they're doing. The EU GDP is about 75% of the US one, it's a huge market.

tyfon 4y ago

They accept money from EU customers so, yes

knaekhoved 4y ago
If I accept money from a Chinese guy, that doesn't make me subject to Chinese law.
- BurningPenguin 4y ago
  If you are a business, that does business in some other country, you also have to comply to their local laws. Even if you don't have a presence there.
- kome 4y ago
  If the Chinese guy is based in China, and he is paying with his hard earned Renminbi yes, you are subject to Chinese law.
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  Nevertheless Chinese government can start seizing your assets in China and transfers from or to you where other participant is in China. And arrest you in case of visiting place within Chinese jurisdiction. Unfun fact: there were multiple cases of people getting arrested after plane performed unexpected emergency landing in a country where landing was not planned. Both where arrest was justified and where it was not.
- tyfon 4y ago
  If you set up a company that accepts money from Chinese citizens and let them do stuff online I am pretty sure your company will be subject to Chinese law, yes.
- oblio 4y ago
  As a one-off donation? Probably not. As a business? For sure. Not for every aspect of Chinese law, but for relevant ones and with enforcement in China or through mutual agreements with other governments. This kind of comment is disappointing. It shows a major lack of understanding of how law and businesses work, coated in a huge layer of outrage, all wrapped up in a Twitter-length type comment.

morjom 4y ago

They seem to have some kind of presence in The Netherlands, if their job postings are anything to go by. Also How is this UI design? Wouldn't this fall under UX or just basic functionality? I press X, program close. If I want it minimized I press the minimize button.

FamosoRandom 4y ago

it's not so simple as "disliking the UI", it's about the UI/UX being clear enough that the user understand what he is doing in order to not be harmed by it in any way (disclosing personnal information for instance). Simply imagine that the user thought that, by clicking the "X" button, he closed the app and got off the vocal channel so that now nobody can hear him. Now a close relative ask him some other personnal info that he don't want to share (Health info, credit card etc..), and other people in the vocal channel hear it. Well, the user has been harmed. So yeah, not about "disliking the UI" but about protecting you, the user

debugnik 4y ago
> Simply imagine that the user thought that, by clicking the "X" button, he closed the app Do most users think that, though? I remember chat apps minimising to the tray bar since MSN Messenger and Skype, possibly earlier, and it's a common feature in most current ones, as well as in other applications. Now, it's true that some other chat apps display a floating panel to remind you that you're still in voice chat, but Discord's target audience is videogame players that don't want their media covered by such panel anyway, and most other chat apps let you close or disable such panel as well. Game consoles don't do so either. I agree with the other points in the case, but this UX design being a GDPR issue makes it clear these people are out of touch with the market.
- FamosoRandom 4y ago
  Look at your web browser. If you click on the "x" on a open tab, it will most likely close it. If you click on the "x" on your browser, it will close the browser, maybe will it alert you that you're going to close many things. Open Microsoft Excel or Microsoft Word, Notepad, your Windows file explorer, same thing. Those are probably the most used app in the world, so people will assume that it is what the "x" button does.
  - debugnik 4y ago
    None of those are supposed to stay on the background (specially not browsers, which are sandboxes for untrusted apps nowadays). But if I click X on my email client, it keeps receiving email; if I click X on my torrent app or JDownloader, they keep downloading; if I click X on Steam, it keeps updating my games; and if I click X on a chat application, it keeps receiving messages and, yes, usually keeps voice chat open. And BTW, browser tabs sadly do stay open in a twisted way: notifications, often malicious for the kind of users that accept the prompts without reading.

conradfr 4y ago

Technically the Cnil is independent from the government. https://www.cnil.fr/en/node/287 https://www.cnil.fr/en/node/287

debugnik 4y ago

> Does Discord even have a corporate presence in the EU? They keep bothering me to pay for Nitro and just pushed a notification that they've added new payment options for my country, so they're clearly targeting the EU market.