5 ms·

Flagged for some compliance issue. Perhaps not having a permanent address? I have a home, but it happened to me twice at two major banks, once for withdrawing

Flagged for some compliance issue. Perhaps not having a permanent address? I have a home, but it happened to me twice at two major banks, once for withdrawing cash (apparently, more than $10,000 cash withdrawn from my own account within 12 months constitutes 'structuring'); once for reasons unknown (I was told that the law is such that they don't have to tell me). They made me take out my money. Scary at the time; 20 years later makes for a funny story.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Banks really dislike when you don’t have a “permanent address” and this quickly becomes a sore point for expats, who also will have issues getting bank accounts abroad. If you try a PO Box, you’re just asking to have your account shut. If you use a virtual mailbox, they’ll catch you too when the mailbox address enters the databases of not-house addresses, probably run by chexsystems or the like. But banks do not care at all if you use your friends or relatives addresses!
- salawat 4y ago
  This is part of KYC, and a cornerstone of the Anti-Money Laundering apparatus. No legal financial institution/money transmitter will do business with someone without a permanent residence. The houseless are basically DoA in terms of being serviced by the financial system at large.
salawat 4y ago
Look up BSA/AML. Basically, lawmakers/law enforcement has drawn a circle around what is considered "normal" account activity, and anything outside that is considered highly likely to be criminal. Taking out the 10000 will normally trigger a CSR, and possibly an SAR. Moving 10k in the system is fine since the institution will maintain records for 7 years where the funds came from and go, and make reports to the local tax authorities. Anything going to cash is going to be very high friction/risky. Making a couple large, individually < 10k withdrawls to cash which added together total more than 10k are explicitly called out examples to illustrate what "criminal structuring" may look like. Structuring, is defined as the act of engaging in financial activity with the explicit intent/purpose of trying to circumvent or avoid triggering reportable events. It is a federal offense, and the Feds have absolutely no sense of humor around it. Financial institutions are strictly liable for failure to comply with BSA/AML. They will not tell you any of this generally as a favor to law enforcement. I will, because info asymmetry is the root of all evil, and I try to trigger as many controls rqqas often as possible to specifically annoy those who deem such activity abnormal/criminal. It probably won't change much, but I resent outliers been sus by default. https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bsa/index-bsa.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination...
- giantdude 4y ago
  I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which my hard-earned, fully-documented, all-taxes-paid cash, withdrawn from my account can amount to money laundering. But whatever.
  - inkeddeveloper 4y ago
    Exactly what a money launderer would say. Busted.
  - salawat 4y ago
    The suspicion arises because you're withdrawing to cash. They don't care about Electronic funds transfers because they know the ultimate destination. Large denominations of cash without justification or with refusal to justify are grounds for elevated suspicion, and anything going as high as 10k, especially broken up over several transactions, combined with an agitated customer in response to any refusal to do so, is generally considered a red flag. Financial institutions are, in essence, a fiscal surveillance network for law enforcement. Pro-tip: Announce you are aware of the CSR/SAR they now have to file, and apologize for the inconvenience. Tends to put them at ease. Be aware, you'll still draw elevated attention for a while. Isn't AML grand?

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

Banks really dislike when you don’t have a “permanent address” and this quickly becomes a sore point for expats, who also will have issues getting bank accounts abroad. If you try a PO Box, you’re just asking to have your account shut. If you use a virtual mailbox, they’ll catch you too when the mailbox address enters the databases of not-house addresses, probably run by chexsystems or the like. But banks do not care at all if you use your friends or relatives addresses!

salawat 4y ago
This is part of KYC, and a cornerstone of the Anti-Money Laundering apparatus. No legal financial institution/money transmitter will do business with someone without a permanent residence. The houseless are basically DoA in terms of being serviced by the financial system at large.

salawat 4y ago

Look up BSA/AML. Basically, lawmakers/law enforcement has drawn a circle around what is considered "normal" account activity, and anything outside that is considered highly likely to be criminal. Taking out the 10000 will normally trigger a CSR, and possibly an SAR. Moving 10k in the system is fine since the institution will maintain records for 7 years where the funds came from and go, and make reports to the local tax authorities. Anything going to cash is going to be very high friction/risky. Making a couple large, individually < 10k withdrawls to cash which added together total more than 10k are explicitly called out examples to illustrate what "criminal structuring" may look like. Structuring, is defined as the act of engaging in financial activity with the explicit intent/purpose of trying to circumvent or avoid triggering reportable events. It is a federal offense, and the Feds have absolutely no sense of humor around it. Financial institutions are strictly liable for failure to comply with BSA/AML. They will not tell you any of this generally as a favor to law enforcement. I will, because info asymmetry is the root of all evil, and I try to trigger as many controls rqqas often as possible to specifically annoy those who deem such activity abnormal/criminal. It probably won't change much, but I resent outliers been sus by default. https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bsa/index-bsa.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination...

giantdude 4y ago
I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which my hard-earned, fully-documented, all-taxes-paid cash, withdrawn from my account can amount to money laundering. But whatever.
- inkeddeveloper 4y ago
  Exactly what a money launderer would say. Busted.
- salawat 4y ago
  The suspicion arises because you're withdrawing to cash. They don't care about Electronic funds transfers because they know the ultimate destination. Large denominations of cash without justification or with refusal to justify are grounds for elevated suspicion, and anything going as high as 10k, especially broken up over several transactions, combined with an agitated customer in response to any refusal to do so, is generally considered a red flag. Financial institutions are, in essence, a fiscal surveillance network for law enforcement. Pro-tip: Announce you are aware of the CSR/SAR they now have to file, and apologize for the inconvenience. Tends to put them at ease. Be aware, you'll still draw elevated attention for a while. Isn't AML grand?