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I worked on Haiku this summer as part of Google summer of code, and it just made me wish their attitude towards user experience was more prevalent in mainstream

I worked on Haiku this summer as part of Google summer of code, and it just made me wish their attitude towards user experience was more prevalent in mainstream OSs. It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger or processes being grouped by application. There's sensible UX that doesn't expect me to be a wizard to understand what's going on or how to dig deeper. Obviously it has rough edges (as, well, honestly all operating systems do), but the things that do work work really well.

sho_hn 4y ago
Both examples are also true in Plasma 5 :-)
gattilorenz 4y ago
> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger or processes being grouped by application. I think after Windows 7 the processes are grouped per application in Task Manager. We’re all grumpy about the redesigns of things we are familiar with, but little UX improvements happen all the time.
- rzzzt 4y ago
  Not the Details tab, though, and the name of the executable is shown there. The tree view in Process Explorer (shipped with Sysinternals) is the best of both worlds.
  - monista 4y ago
    I wanted to point to FOSS (GPL3) alternative ProcessHacker [1] which I'm using for years, and found out that their github link [2] now redirects to systeminformer [3], looks like repo rebranding, wasn't able to find it mentioned anywhere though. [1]: https://processhacker.sourceforge.io/ https://processhacker.sourceforge.io/ [2]: https://github.com/processhacker/processhacker/ https://github.com/processhacker/processhacker/ [3]: https://github.com/winsiderss/systeminformer/ https://github.com/winsiderss/systeminformer/
    - roelschroeven 4y ago
      Thanks, I knew about Process Hacker but not System Informer. It's all a bit weird: the download page for System Informer only lists Process Hacker binaries, for "legacy operating systems", while there are no binaries yet for "supported operating systems".
- ilyt 4y ago
  I wish they would just put ProcessExplorer there instead...
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    process explorer is a lot too much for an average Windows user, I would think. it's dead easy to obtain if you want it, though.
- dominicm 4y ago
  > I think after Windows 7 the processes are grouped per application in Task Manager. We’re all grumpy about the redesigns of things we are familiar with, but little UX improvements happen all the time. You're right; I was mostly thinking about problems with Linux since thats my daily driver. It would have been better to say that Haiku gives developers the same UX affordances for interacting with their system as non-technical users. When using Linux I'm frustrated by an overall lack of UX, but when using Windows/Mac it's developer specific UX that's ignored.
  - electroly 4y ago
    FWIW, as with the Task Manager thing, the thing about launching the graphical debugger on crashes was added to Windows eons ago. Even Windows 9x had it, contemporaneously with BeOS. If you had a debugger installed, a "Debug" button would appear between "Close" and "Details". Debug assertion failures will pop up a dialog from the C runtime allowing you to break into the debugger there, too.
    - dominicm 4y ago
      Huh, TIL. Thanks.
tambourine_man 4y ago
>processes being grouped by application Activity Monitor in macOS can do that too.
Someone 4y ago
> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger […] sensible UX that doesn't expect me to be a wizard I think that shows what the target audience is. I think most people wouldn’t know what to do with that prompt, other than immediately discard it.
- dominicm 4y ago
  > I think that shows what the target audience is. I think most people wouldn’t know what to do with that prompt, other than immediately discard it. That's a fair complaint, and I'm definitely biased since I'm technically oriented. That said, discarding it is totally fine as long as people who want it at least get the option; and if even showing it is too confusing to users, it's a lot better to have a "developer" toggle in settings that enables all this stuff, rather than not having it at all. Haiku's certainly not crazy accessible right now, but it has some ideas that I think other OSs should take note of.
zozbot234 4y ago
> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger or processes being grouped by application. SerenityOS is also doing a lot to perfect their UX. It might become at least as popular as Haiku down the line.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  I absolutely love SerenityOS, and it has been moving at an outrageously quick pace.
bluedino 4y ago
BeOS was a niche of a niche but I fell in love with the GUI. It has a Mac OS 8 feel to it.
abiloe 4y ago
> attitude towards user experience was more prevalent in mainstream OSs. > It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger If this is the concept of "mainstream" and sensible "user experience" it sounds like Haiku is a complete bunch of horseshit. (And this feature is easily available in Windows anyway)
- emptyparadise 4y ago
  developers are users too my dude

sho_hn 4y ago

Both examples are also true in Plasma 5 :-)

gattilorenz 4y ago

> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger or processes being grouped by application. I think after Windows 7 the processes are grouped per application in Task Manager. We’re all grumpy about the redesigns of things we are familiar with, but little UX improvements happen all the time.

rzzzt 4y ago
Not the Details tab, though, and the name of the executable is shown there. The tree view in Process Explorer (shipped with Sysinternals) is the best of both worlds.
- monista 4y ago
  I wanted to point to FOSS (GPL3) alternative ProcessHacker [1] which I'm using for years, and found out that their github link [2] now redirects to systeminformer [3], looks like repo rebranding, wasn't able to find it mentioned anywhere though. [1]: https://processhacker.sourceforge.io/ https://processhacker.sourceforge.io/ [2]: https://github.com/processhacker/processhacker/ https://github.com/processhacker/processhacker/ [3]: https://github.com/winsiderss/systeminformer/ https://github.com/winsiderss/systeminformer/
  - roelschroeven 4y ago
    Thanks, I knew about Process Hacker but not System Informer. It's all a bit weird: the download page for System Informer only lists Process Hacker binaries, for "legacy operating systems", while there are no binaries yet for "supported operating systems".
ilyt 4y ago
I wish they would just put ProcessExplorer there instead...
- naikrovek 4y ago
  process explorer is a lot too much for an average Windows user, I would think. it's dead easy to obtain if you want it, though.
dominicm 4y ago
> I think after Windows 7 the processes are grouped per application in Task Manager. We’re all grumpy about the redesigns of things we are familiar with, but little UX improvements happen all the time. You're right; I was mostly thinking about problems with Linux since thats my daily driver. It would have been better to say that Haiku gives developers the same UX affordances for interacting with their system as non-technical users. When using Linux I'm frustrated by an overall lack of UX, but when using Windows/Mac it's developer specific UX that's ignored.
- electroly 4y ago
  FWIW, as with the Task Manager thing, the thing about launching the graphical debugger on crashes was added to Windows eons ago. Even Windows 9x had it, contemporaneously with BeOS. If you had a debugger installed, a "Debug" button would appear between "Close" and "Details". Debug assertion failures will pop up a dialog from the C runtime allowing you to break into the debugger there, too.
  - dominicm 4y ago
    Huh, TIL. Thanks.

tambourine_man 4y ago

>processes being grouped by application Activity Monitor in macOS can do that too.

Someone 4y ago

> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger […] sensible UX that doesn't expect me to be a wizard I think that shows what the target audience is. I think most people wouldn’t know what to do with that prompt, other than immediately discard it.

dominicm 4y ago
> I think that shows what the target audience is. I think most people wouldn’t know what to do with that prompt, other than immediately discard it. That's a fair complaint, and I'm definitely biased since I'm technically oriented. That said, discarding it is totally fine as long as people who want it at least get the option; and if even showing it is too confusing to users, it's a lot better to have a "developer" toggle in settings that enables all this stuff, rather than not having it at all. Haiku's certainly not crazy accessible right now, but it has some ideas that I think other OSs should take note of.

zozbot234 4y ago

> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger or processes being grouped by application. SerenityOS is also doing a lot to perfect their UX. It might become at least as popular as Haiku down the line.

BirAdam 4y ago
I absolutely love SerenityOS, and it has been moving at an outrageously quick pace.

bluedino 4y ago

BeOS was a niche of a niche but I fell in love with the GUI. It has a Mac OS 8 feel to it.

abiloe 4y ago

> attitude towards user experience was more prevalent in mainstream OSs. > It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger If this is the concept of "mainstream" and sensible "user experience" it sounds like Haiku is a complete bunch of horseshit. (And this feature is easily available in Windows anyway)

emptyparadise 4y ago
developers are users too my dude