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If the pipeline was shut off it could presumably be turned back on. If the pipeline was blown up that changes things. At a time when much of the world is lookin

If the pipeline was shut off it could presumably be turned back on. If the pipeline was blown up that changes things. At a time when much of the world is looking toward China and Russia instead of the US, Europe has been forced to be more dependent on the US.

bsder 4y ago
This completely ignores: 1) The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this 2) The fact that the US does this sort of thing with submarines, not ships. Whereas: we have Vladmir Putin who is looking at would be assassins who have a nice, ready-made source of cash if they take him out simply by turning the pipeline back on. And Putin will suffer neither PR nor diplomatic repercussions for blowing up the pipeline.
- flanflan 4y ago
  > The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this Why would the US care about a PR disaster? It's not like Europe has any choice in the matter at this point. > Whereas: we have Vladmir Putin who is looking at would be assassins who have a nice, ready-made source of cash if they take him out simply by turning the pipeline back on. And Putin will suffer neither PR nor diplomatic repercussions for blowing up the pipeline. What?
  - bsder 4y ago
    > Why would the US care about a PR disaster? It's not like Europe has any choice in the matter at this point. Because the will of the allied sanction group is strongly dependent upon PR? The EU nations are a fractious group on the best of days. One of the reasons why the support for Ukraine and sanctions for Russia were so swift was the fact that Biden played the PR and intelligence game perfectly. > What? What part of my statement is not clear? Putin is worried about assassins. Taking out Putin and taking over Russia can be converted to cash very quickly by turning the pipeline back on even before sanctions get lifted. Blowing up the pipeline prevents any would be assassins from making use of it later. Putin will suffer neither PR backlash (he controls the Russian media) nor diplomatic backlash (he has already been isolated) for blowing up the pipeline. And I note that you completely ignored the point that the US would do this with subs (and this was what they could do 30+ years ago). See: Blind Man's Bluff--https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/dp/1610393589 https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/...
    - flanflan 4y ago
      I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you but since you insist on me addressing the subs thing it's worth pointing out that the ships mentioned in the article were just present in the days ahead of the leaks and there is no concrete evidence they were the attackers.
- fuoqi 4y ago
  >The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this Ha-ha, let's take a look how much of "PR disaster" was direct spying on European "allied" leaders. Europe simply swallowed it without much trouble. With NS/NS2 we have a much better field for deniability. Simply say that any evidence is a Russian conspiracy or false flag.
  - eloisius 4y ago
    Spying between allies is not uncommon and is even tacitly allowed because it increases trust between partners.
    - fuoqi 4y ago
      Sure, I am confident the US will react in the same way to Germany or France intelligence services tapping their president.

bsder 4y ago

This completely ignores: 1) The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this 2) The fact that the US does this sort of thing with submarines, not ships. Whereas: we have Vladmir Putin who is looking at would be assassins who have a nice, ready-made source of cash if they take him out simply by turning the pipeline back on. And Putin will suffer neither PR nor diplomatic repercussions for blowing up the pipeline.

flanflan 4y ago
> The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this Why would the US care about a PR disaster? It's not like Europe has any choice in the matter at this point. > Whereas: we have Vladmir Putin who is looking at would be assassins who have a nice, ready-made source of cash if they take him out simply by turning the pipeline back on. And Putin will suffer neither PR nor diplomatic repercussions for blowing up the pipeline. What?
- bsder 4y ago
  > Why would the US care about a PR disaster? It's not like Europe has any choice in the matter at this point. Because the will of the allied sanction group is strongly dependent upon PR? The EU nations are a fractious group on the best of days. One of the reasons why the support for Ukraine and sanctions for Russia were so swift was the fact that Biden played the PR and intelligence game perfectly. > What? What part of my statement is not clear? Putin is worried about assassins. Taking out Putin and taking over Russia can be converted to cash very quickly by turning the pipeline back on even before sanctions get lifted. Blowing up the pipeline prevents any would be assassins from making use of it later. Putin will suffer neither PR backlash (he controls the Russian media) nor diplomatic backlash (he has already been isolated) for blowing up the pipeline. And I note that you completely ignored the point that the US would do this with subs (and this was what they could do 30+ years ago). See: Blind Man's Bluff--https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/dp/1610393589 https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Bluff-Submarine-Espionage/...
  - flanflan 4y ago
    I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you but since you insist on me addressing the subs thing it's worth pointing out that the ships mentioned in the article were just present in the days ahead of the leaks and there is no concrete evidence they were the attackers.
fuoqi 4y ago
>The PR disaster that would ensue if the US were caught doing this Ha-ha, let's take a look how much of "PR disaster" was direct spying on European "allied" leaders. Europe simply swallowed it without much trouble. With NS/NS2 we have a much better field for deniability. Simply say that any evidence is a Russian conspiracy or false flag.
- eloisius 4y ago
  Spying between allies is not uncommon and is even tacitly allowed because it increases trust between partners.
  - fuoqi 4y ago
    Sure, I am confident the US will react in the same way to Germany or France intelligence services tapping their president.