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Why can't a new company simply undercut the competition? I don't imagine the barriers to entry are too high for manufacturing glasses, are they?
by planetsprite 4y ago
Why can't a new company simply undercut the competition? I don't imagine the barriers to entry are too high for manufacturing glasses, are they?
- selcuka 4y ago> Why can't a new company simply undercut the competition? They can and they do [1]. They just don't have the same marketing budget, so you don't hear as much about them. [1] https://www.zennioptical.com/ https://www.zennioptical.com/
- at_compile_time 4y agoI'll second this recommendation. I've had the same pair of $35 glasses for 5 years now, I wear them every day, and they're still good as new.
- adzm 4y agoNot to mention the pupillary distance is not commonly included on optical prescriptions which creates a significant hurdle, even though it can be measured yourself or usually given when asked.
- hyperbovine 4y agoZenni will send you a cool little cardboard ruler that sits on the bridge of your nose to measure PD. It suffices (I am wearing my Zenni frames as I write this). I hate hate hate EssilorLuxxotica.
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- wrycoder 4y agoMy ophthalmologist claimed he didn’t have the equipment to add PD to his prescription. Bald-faced liar. BTW, the app is called PD Measure.
- epmaybe 4y agoOphthalmologist or optometrist? Very different, and I think the difference needs to be overstated more and more.
- wrycoder 4y agoI got it wrong the first time. He’s an MD ophthalmologist.
- Maursault 4y agoUnless there's need for specialized medical or surgical treatment, getting eye exams and eyeglass prescriptions from an ophthalmologist as opposed to a optometrist is like getting your teeth cleaned by an oral surgeon rather than a dentist. Astigmatism and/or myopia, refractive errors, corneal disease, amblyopia? Optometrist. Ptosis, proptosis, endophthalmitis, macular degeneration, excess tearing, detached retina or trauma? Ophthalmologist.
- bradwood 4y agoFuck dude. I think I got macular degeneration just reading that! ;)
- epmaybe 4y agoAt the same time I agree with parent that this persons ophthalmologist was a liar and should honestly be reported for that kind of shady behavior. EDIT: also re corneal disease unless the treatment is a contact lens go to an ophthalmologist for that one too
- bombcar 4y agoTo be fair, I had a dentist who was technically an oral surgeon but would sometimes even bump the hygienist and do the cleanings himself; because they were easy and he was bored. Same cost to me so I didn't mind.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
- banana_giraffe 4y agoI've asked for my pupillary distance in the past and got a talking to about how evil online ordering is and how it'll ruin my eyes before they would give it to me. All BS, and when I asked if they'd fill a prescription for lenses for my VR unit instead of ordering them online, they stared at me like I had grown a third arm.
- Tangurena2 4y agoMine gave me the number without question. Mind you, by this time, I had spent about 2 hours at the store trying on different frames and asking for frames that were on their website only to be told something like "we have those at the other branch, not this one".
- mrguyorama 4y agoMy understanding is that they are legally required to give it to you, at least in some places.
- KatieLN 4y agoCorrect! By law, they're required to give it to you. If they refuse, just use an app on your smartphone. (eyemeasure is the one i used)
- y2bd 4y agoIn the US anyway, they're legally required to give you your prescription (SPH, CYL, prism, etc). However, PD and other ocular measurements aren't classified as part of a prescription.
- Johnny555 4y agoI've had great experience with Zenni for single-vision prescriptions, but when I graduated to progressive (i.e. bifocal) lenses, the Zenni lenses were terrible and I couldn't use them. Not sure if it was the frame fit, or poor PD measuring on my part, but I tried twice and both times I couldn't use them. The glasses I got from my optometrist are much better, at 3X - 4X the price of Zenni.
- bombcar 4y agoZenni needs a "send in old glasses and we'll match" feature added.
- femto 4y agoIt's easy to do your own PD measurement with a mirror and ruler https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33525673#33529513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33525673#33529513
- grogenaut 4y agomy family won't even ask for the pd... so I can't buy them cheaper lenses... and I'm not going to have a giant fight with my spouse even tho for what I'm paying in vision coverage we could get 4-10x the glasses they get now.
- jschveibinz 4y agoI have been using zennioptical for years, and I’ve saved friends and family lots of money with my recommendations. They don’t do fancy, brand name frames. But otherwise the quality is fine.
- davidmurdoch 4y agoThose fancy brand name frames are literally just different names for Luxxotica.
- tyrfing 4y agoWhat they don't have is a good anti-reflective coating. If you want that, you end up back with Luxottica (Essilor.)
- argondonor 4y agoIt would be nice if any of these sites had an AR solution that was completely clientside. I can't bring myself to agree to let them store my face + face info for 3 years.
- petilon 4y agoIf you manufacture glasses, how are you going to get it into the hands of consumers? Luxottica owns the retail stores and the insurance company.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoRetail stores can be started by anyone, and there are tons of optometrists that sell glasses from their own store. The “insurance” company presents a higher barrier, since it is basically the government handing a discount to people for buying via employer subsidized vision “insurance”. The discount is that this benefit can be paid with pre tax dollars, so it obfuscates the real prices when people with vision insurance shop for eyewear. I put “insurance” in quotes because the annual benefit maximums, like dental “insurance”, are so low that the premiums are simply prepaying for routine exams/eyeglasses. In effect, employer subsidized dental/vision insurance is just an advantage for large employers who can afford to administer those benefits and the employees who are lucky enough to work at those kinds of employers get to pay for routine dental/vision with pre tax dollars.
- conductr 4y agoAnd, if you pay premiums, you’re more likely to actually go to your routine appointment and then your LTV is increased
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- ska 4y agoIt's probably higher than appears at first blush, at least to do at scale. But not a huge barrier. But there isn't an open market for manufactured lenses, you have to get them into consumers hands, and you have to get prescriptions, and people want fitting and ability to try frames. Superficially it seems that glasses are highly vertical in practice, which is why budget outfits like zenni and warby parker seem mostly to be focused on the margins of direct-to-consumer.
- csomar 4y agoThere are two markets: The cheap, and the "brand". You either buy a "cheap" one for $10 and get a lens for it; or you go for a "brand" name like RayBan (which is Luxottica). I started buying cheap 4 years ago, and surprisingly the frame is still doing well (brand frames usually last 2-3 years)
- wyclif 4y agoSince Luxottica bought out RayBan, the quality has plummeted. I have a pair of original Wayfarer II's that I got years before the buyout. The plastic is noticeably higher quality, the lenses are polarized and Bausch & Lomb. And they have five barrel hinges! Built like a tank and have survived many drops. Mine are still going strong and are 'buy it for life' quality. Still going strong after 38 years...I got them when I was 16 years old and in HS for a trip to the Bahamas. Compare that to current RayBans. Cheap plastic. Plastic lenses. Spring hinges that break quickly and don't last. And worst of all, branding everywhere. On the temple. And again on the lens. Terrible.
- tartoran 4y agoThat’s how they make their money, brand names affords them to charge a lot of money, they lower the quality and the manufacturing the cost and then pocket the rest.
- Someone1234 4y agoYour employer may offer pre-tax vision insurance, this vision insurance is run by Luxottica, and works exclusively at their retail locations and brands. Sometimes employers will even pay part of the vision insurance premium, thus making it, so your choices are to leave that money on the table OR pay completely out of pocket post-tax dollars. There are alternative ways to use pretax dollars on eyeware, but many people aren't familiar with them and they require some management.
- kmonsen 4y agoDoesn’t all fsa account cover glasses? Pretty easy to use that for pre tax dollars on eyeware. You can spend it wherever you want.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoVision insurance will typically be subsidized by the employer around 50% or more, so it could still be more expensive to not use the vision insurance.
- bombcar 4y agoThe crappy "vision insurance" we got "for free" was still more expensive out of pocket than a Walmart optometrist visit + 5 pairs from Zenni. It's entirely a racket; would be like selling oil change insurance.
- LorenPechtel 4y agoNot all of us have FSAs. We're both self-employed, no FSA money.
- yencabulator 4y agoYou know, the kind of health care self-employed people are more likely to have (high deductible) is more likely to qualify for HSA -- and an HSA is great because it's like a pre-tax extra IRA allowance if you don't use it for healthcare.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y agoBecause the people who can measure which glasses you need are in on it.
- Aunche 4y agoI'm guessing that part of is that they have a very tight relationship with insurance. Insurance covers Luxottica much more than the budget brands, so for me personally, it's actually a similar price if I choose a frame that's on sale. I tried a pair of Zennis, but they honestly felt super low-quality compared to my other glasses, even though I got all the upgrades.
- jwr 4y agoNot for manufacturing, but you need good designs first, something people will want to buy. And most people will want to buy something with a BIG BRAND NAME on it. I tried buying glasses online and discovered another problem: the industry hasn't standardized on measurements. It's very difficult to buy frames online. The numbers/measurements will be, for example, for lens width and nose bridge width only — go figure how large the entire frame is. I tried, and failed, accepting that I pretty much need to visit a store.
- kolp 4y agoThe frame size is normally written (in Europe, at least) on the inside of one of the arms of the glasses. Find an existing pair that fits you and note the measurements. That measure, together with your prescription and PD should be sufficient to order online.