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More drum-beating about this illusory talent shortage, eh? I'm still waiting to see any signs at all that this shortage actually exists, aside from random "I c

More drum-beating about this illusory talent shortage, eh? I'm still waiting to see any signs at all that this shortage actually exists, aside from random "I can't find a rockstar!" anecdotes.

poutine 15y ago
Very hard to find experienced Ruby devs in Vancouver, Canada. Have had open positions for months at my company with only junior people applying.
- hnwh 15y ago
  so train them
  - rickmb 15y ago
    As long as there's no decent form of vocational education, training in-house is a huge investment. You can only properly train one junior for every three to four seniors before it becomes disruptive. Many companies that have already made the mistake of hiring too many juniors in an attempt to deal with the shortage, and have suffered the consequences (huge drops in quality and productivity, and in the worst case, seeing the experienced seniors they did have walk away frustrated). Where education fails, major companies like Google and Facebook should take the responsibility for training juniors. Instead they spend their fortunes strip-mining the market.
    - polyfractal 15y ago
      Yeah! Google should start firing their top talent every five years too so the rest of the tech industry has a chance to hire them. Because that makes about as much business sense.
    - rwolf 15y ago
      As a junior developer at a major company, it sure feels like I'm receiving training. Since major companies are hiring both junior and senior developers, are you suggesting they stop hiring senior developers?
- khafra 15y ago
  How much are you offering? I know an experienced ruby dev in New Orleans who'd be reluctant to relocate, but everybody has a price.
- muzz 15y ago
  Free market economics tells us that price is the variable that moves so that supply and demand intersect. I.e. it sounds like you are simply not paying enough.
famousactress 15y ago
I think calling it a talent shortage is a mistake. It's not a talent shortage, but it is difficult to hire. As for difficulty to hire, it seems to be driven by all kinds of things.. lots of potential-employees-turned-founders, a pretty decent splintering of tech-stacks, more companies getting more done with smaller teams (and therefore having more specific desires), and shorter term thinking in terms of velocity and exits.. making investing in longer-term talent/training less likely.. to name a few.
- TruthElixirX 15y ago
  >lots of potential-employees-turned-founders If there is trouble finding people to hire because they are all out starting their own companies that means one or two things: 1) There is an over supply of management. Developers/engineers are able to manage themselves effectively enough that they do not need to spend their time enriching someone else. 2) Engineers are turning to their own business plans because that is the only way to get adequately compensated. I think #2 is more likely. I believe we are seeing the start of a shift towards engineers making as much or more than the management/CEO types. Engineering bargaining power is on the rise and will only continue to get stronger.
  - famousactress 15y ago
    Nah. You're assuming they're finding success doing this. Most of them aren't. It's a relatively young trend. There's enough people getting funded, and having pretty nice exits to attract loads of developers to heavily prefer founding. Also, the heavy hiring market means that if things don't work out there's a soft landing waiting somewhere. The truth regarding #2 is that the vast majority of these devs will make far less from these ventures than they would if they showed up at GOOG. It's cheaper than ever to start a company, seed capital is pretty easy to come by.. so why not roll the dice? That's the mentality. Unfortunately I think all of the furor and entre-porn makes being a founder look more than a bit easier than it is. I think lots of these kids would benefit from a year or two at another startup to get some hands-on experience and mentorship, but I think as an industry we're also a bit more fascinated with youth than experience at the moment. At any rate, I don't agree that either of your points are major contributors. #2 comes close, but being compensated for founding and running a business (and taking the risks to do so) is very different than being compensated for writing software for someone else's business.
andywood 15y ago
I'll believe there might be a talent shortage just as soon as one single person, who is not a colleague with whom I have a close personal rapport, approaches me either directly or through my network with an opportunity. That's what I'd expect to see, even if only occasionally, if there was really a shortage. As it stands, it looks much more like accepted hiring / job seeking practices are just grossly inefficient at matching up talent with opportunities. That's inconvenient, for both sides, but it's not the same thing as a shortage.

More drum-beating about this illusory talent shortage, eh? I'm still waiting to see any signs at all that this shortage actually exists, aside from random "I can't find a rockstar!" anecdotes.

poutine 15y ago

Very hard to find experienced Ruby devs in Vancouver, Canada. Have had open positions for months at my company with only junior people applying.

hnwh 15y ago
so train them
- rickmb 15y ago
  As long as there's no decent form of vocational education, training in-house is a huge investment. You can only properly train one junior for every three to four seniors before it becomes disruptive. Many companies that have already made the mistake of hiring too many juniors in an attempt to deal with the shortage, and have suffered the consequences (huge drops in quality and productivity, and in the worst case, seeing the experienced seniors they did have walk away frustrated). Where education fails, major companies like Google and Facebook should take the responsibility for training juniors. Instead they spend their fortunes strip-mining the market.
  - polyfractal 15y ago
    Yeah! Google should start firing their top talent every five years too so the rest of the tech industry has a chance to hire them. Because that makes about as much business sense.
  - rwolf 15y ago
    As a junior developer at a major company, it sure feels like I'm receiving training. Since major companies are hiring both junior and senior developers, are you suggesting they stop hiring senior developers?
khafra 15y ago
How much are you offering? I know an experienced ruby dev in New Orleans who'd be reluctant to relocate, but everybody has a price.
muzz 15y ago
Free market economics tells us that price is the variable that moves so that supply and demand intersect. I.e. it sounds like you are simply not paying enough.

famousactress 15y ago

I think calling it a talent shortage is a mistake. It's not a talent shortage, but it is difficult to hire. As for difficulty to hire, it seems to be driven by all kinds of things.. lots of potential-employees-turned-founders, a pretty decent splintering of tech-stacks, more companies getting more done with smaller teams (and therefore having more specific desires), and shorter term thinking in terms of velocity and exits.. making investing in longer-term talent/training less likely.. to name a few.

TruthElixirX 15y ago
>lots of potential-employees-turned-founders If there is trouble finding people to hire because they are all out starting their own companies that means one or two things: 1) There is an over supply of management. Developers/engineers are able to manage themselves effectively enough that they do not need to spend their time enriching someone else. 2) Engineers are turning to their own business plans because that is the only way to get adequately compensated. I think #2 is more likely. I believe we are seeing the start of a shift towards engineers making as much or more than the management/CEO types. Engineering bargaining power is on the rise and will only continue to get stronger.
- famousactress 15y ago
  Nah. You're assuming they're finding success doing this. Most of them aren't. It's a relatively young trend. There's enough people getting funded, and having pretty nice exits to attract loads of developers to heavily prefer founding. Also, the heavy hiring market means that if things don't work out there's a soft landing waiting somewhere. The truth regarding #2 is that the vast majority of these devs will make far less from these ventures than they would if they showed up at GOOG. It's cheaper than ever to start a company, seed capital is pretty easy to come by.. so why not roll the dice? That's the mentality. Unfortunately I think all of the furor and entre-porn makes being a founder look more than a bit easier than it is. I think lots of these kids would benefit from a year or two at another startup to get some hands-on experience and mentorship, but I think as an industry we're also a bit more fascinated with youth than experience at the moment. At any rate, I don't agree that either of your points are major contributors. #2 comes close, but being compensated for founding and running a business (and taking the risks to do so) is very different than being compensated for writing software for someone else's business.

andywood 15y ago

I'll believe there might be a talent shortage just as soon as one single person, who is not a colleague with whom I have a close personal rapport, approaches me either directly or through my network with an opportunity. That's what I'd expect to see, even if only occasionally, if there was really a shortage. As it stands, it looks much more like accepted hiring / job seeking practices are just grossly inefficient at matching up talent with opportunities. That's inconvenient, for both sides, but it's not the same thing as a shortage.