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In the interest of fairness, here is Singal's response to that page: https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/glaad-took-false-previously-disproven https://jessesing

In the interest of fairness, here is Singal's response to that page: https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/glaad-took-false-previously-disproven https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/glaad-took-false-previous... For what it's worth, I'm 100% with Singal here.

bb010g 4y ago
Further in the interest of fairness, here's a response to Singal in general, including his "When Children Say They’re Trans" story for the Atlantic that he defends there: https://proteanmag.com/2022/04/22/singal-and-the-noise/ https://proteanmag.com/2022/04/22/singal-and-the-noise/ Singal defends conversion therapy and uses poor science to defend his claims. I'm not sympathetic.
- thagsimmons 4y ago
  Obviously people need to make up their own mind, but I do hope that they'd read what Singal actually writes and not base their opinion on a mean-spirited, vengeful hit-piece like this.
- mustache_kimono 4y ago
  From the linked article: > "Behind a veneer of empathy and concern, Singal has supplied anti-trans narratives that the right has found appealing." As an occasional listener to Singal's very good podcast (which covers mostly internet controversy), I have to say -- Singal comes across as thoughtful and empathetic, precisely because he actually seems to be thoughtful and empathetic. So, briefly, a generally left-leaning, big city journalist writes several thoughtful, empathetic takes on trans children and gender dysmorphia that don't play into the established lefty narrative, and, of course, it gets treated as heretical. The problem is and was not that Singal is a bigot, or that he's just plain wrong. The greatest problem many have with Singal is that he is not following a prescribed narrative. These issues are now a matter of public concern whether we like it or not. When politicians in my state are banning gender affirming medical procedures for trans children, we need more light not less, because (and this shouldn't be hard to believe) the real problem actually is the (half true) established narratives. Good journalism is good because it can help us understand more than two sides of an issue. And when someone like Singal, who is obviously operating in good faith, is treated like a pariah when they dare to say something difficult and unpopular among their in-group, it makes me dislike the partisans for this issue more and trust them less. > Singal defends conversion therapy and uses poor science to defend his claims. I'm not sympathetic. This really does drastically overstate even the linked article's, not particularly thoughtful, case.
  - a_shovel 4y ago
    Saying Singal "obviously" operates in good faith is an exaggeration. Michael Hobbes on Twitter has a few threads regarding Singal where he shows how Singal likes to move the goalposts and accuse people of being "irresponsible" for making straightforwardly true claims (even ones that are supported by his own evidence). [ https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3ARottenInDenmark%20jesse&f=top https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3ARottenInDenmark%20jesse&... ]
    - mustache_kimono 4y ago
      We can go pretty deep in the weeds in a thread that is AFAIK flagged and dead. > Saying Singal "obviously" operates in good faith is an exaggeration. From what I've heard and read of Jesse's, he seems to take great pains to be honest and fair. He seems to me to obviously be operating in good faith. Or as I would expect a curious, thoughtful journalist to act. But, yes, you and others may come to other conclusions. And, unfortunately, my experiences re: Hobbes's journalism have not been as glowing. They've frankly been disappointing. Hobbes seems to lack the very compassion and empathy Singal seems to obviously have. Hobbes tends to paint what seem to me to be good-faith disagreements as grand moral violations. But I may need to see more and maybe I'm mistaken? > Singal likes to move the goalposts and accuse people of being "irresponsible" for making straightforwardly true claims I think you need to be more specific re: this claim. Unsurprisingly, a link to all the subtweets someone has made about Jesse Singal isn't very helpful.
      - a_shovel 4y ago
        The word "seems" is kinda the crux of the issue here. Singal has the tone of a curious, thoughtful jouralist who enters into research with no pre-established biases, and Hobbes has the tone of a guy who gets into Twitter arguments. The problem is that tone is not important, what's true is important. You can't determinte the truth just through the tone of the person communicating with you. A tone of thoughtful neutrality doesn't make something true, and a tone of belligerence doesn't indicate a lie. I discussed the example I was referencing in my response to ggreer. Here's a link to the twitter thread, for clarification: https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1582092473736007680 https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/15820924737360076... I'd like to see an example of what you mean regarding Hobbes. I think that'd help me a lot to understand your position.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Has he ever said anything like "trans rights" though? Why is a (seemingly) single, childless, straight and cis man involving himself so much in trans teenagers? He's got an Agenda and it isn't sitting right.
- mustache_kimono 4y ago
  Because he's a journalist? "This smells funny. A science reporter doing journalism on a controversial issue..."
- kurisufag 4y ago
  >Why is a (seemingly) single, childless, straight and cis man involving himself so much in trans teenagers? I fail to see how this is on any level unusual. The idea of a "teenager" only exists in the first place to facilitate disconnected adults imposing ideas upon them for their own good.

bb010g 4y ago

Further in the interest of fairness, here's a response to Singal in general, including his "When Children Say They’re Trans" story for the Atlantic that he defends there: https://proteanmag.com/2022/04/22/singal-and-the-noise/ https://proteanmag.com/2022/04/22/singal-and-the-noise/ Singal defends conversion therapy and uses poor science to defend his claims. I'm not sympathetic.

thagsimmons 4y ago
Obviously people need to make up their own mind, but I do hope that they'd read what Singal actually writes and not base their opinion on a mean-spirited, vengeful hit-piece like this.
mustache_kimono 4y ago
From the linked article: > "Behind a veneer of empathy and concern, Singal has supplied anti-trans narratives that the right has found appealing." As an occasional listener to Singal's very good podcast (which covers mostly internet controversy), I have to say -- Singal comes across as thoughtful and empathetic, precisely because he actually seems to be thoughtful and empathetic. So, briefly, a generally left-leaning, big city journalist writes several thoughtful, empathetic takes on trans children and gender dysmorphia that don't play into the established lefty narrative, and, of course, it gets treated as heretical. The problem is and was not that Singal is a bigot, or that he's just plain wrong. The greatest problem many have with Singal is that he is not following a prescribed narrative. These issues are now a matter of public concern whether we like it or not. When politicians in my state are banning gender affirming medical procedures for trans children, we need more light not less, because (and this shouldn't be hard to believe) the real problem actually is the (half true) established narratives. Good journalism is good because it can help us understand more than two sides of an issue. And when someone like Singal, who is obviously operating in good faith, is treated like a pariah when they dare to say something difficult and unpopular among their in-group, it makes me dislike the partisans for this issue more and trust them less. > Singal defends conversion therapy and uses poor science to defend his claims. I'm not sympathetic. This really does drastically overstate even the linked article's, not particularly thoughtful, case.
- a_shovel 4y ago
  Saying Singal "obviously" operates in good faith is an exaggeration. Michael Hobbes on Twitter has a few threads regarding Singal where he shows how Singal likes to move the goalposts and accuse people of being "irresponsible" for making straightforwardly true claims (even ones that are supported by his own evidence). [ https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3ARottenInDenmark%20jesse&f=top https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3ARottenInDenmark%20jesse&... ]
  - mustache_kimono 4y ago
    We can go pretty deep in the weeds in a thread that is AFAIK flagged and dead. > Saying Singal "obviously" operates in good faith is an exaggeration. From what I've heard and read of Jesse's, he seems to take great pains to be honest and fair. He seems to me to obviously be operating in good faith. Or as I would expect a curious, thoughtful journalist to act. But, yes, you and others may come to other conclusions. And, unfortunately, my experiences re: Hobbes's journalism have not been as glowing. They've frankly been disappointing. Hobbes seems to lack the very compassion and empathy Singal seems to obviously have. Hobbes tends to paint what seem to me to be good-faith disagreements as grand moral violations. But I may need to see more and maybe I'm mistaken? > Singal likes to move the goalposts and accuse people of being "irresponsible" for making straightforwardly true claims I think you need to be more specific re: this claim. Unsurprisingly, a link to all the subtweets someone has made about Jesse Singal isn't very helpful.
    - a_shovel 4y ago
      The word "seems" is kinda the crux of the issue here. Singal has the tone of a curious, thoughtful jouralist who enters into research with no pre-established biases, and Hobbes has the tone of a guy who gets into Twitter arguments. The problem is that tone is not important, what's true is important. You can't determinte the truth just through the tone of the person communicating with you. A tone of thoughtful neutrality doesn't make something true, and a tone of belligerence doesn't indicate a lie. I discussed the example I was referencing in my response to ggreer. Here's a link to the twitter thread, for clarification: https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1582092473736007680 https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/15820924737360076... I'd like to see an example of what you mean regarding Hobbes. I think that'd help me a lot to understand your position.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

Has he ever said anything like "trans rights" though? Why is a (seemingly) single, childless, straight and cis man involving himself so much in trans teenagers? He's got an Agenda and it isn't sitting right.

mustache_kimono 4y ago
Because he's a journalist? "This smells funny. A science reporter doing journalism on a controversial issue..."
kurisufag 4y ago
>Why is a (seemingly) single, childless, straight and cis man involving himself so much in trans teenagers? I fail to see how this is on any level unusual. The idea of a "teenager" only exists in the first place to facilitate disconnected adults imposing ideas upon them for their own good.