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Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user wil

Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user will enable it by accident -- and will probably only do so upon the instruction of an Apple Store Support Rep.

lallysingh 15y ago
There's no way to send a remote message to enable it?
- redrobot5050 15y ago
  Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with more success now. Oh, and you do know that everything you SEND through a cellular network -- texts, pics, urls visited are logged, right? The only way to have a private network is to own the network. And know your netsec.
  - lukeschlather 15y ago
    >However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. Really? When a phone is off, it's off, I don't believe the FBI can make a phone that has been hard powered off come up and start recording. The hardware just isn't capable of doing anything when it's hard powered off (evidenced by the fact that most phones need a signal to establish what time it is when you power them on.)
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.
      - lukeschlather 15y ago
        When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.
        rdtsc 15y ago
        Again, how do you know the phone is powered off unless you have a flip switch connected to the battery, take the battery out (and at the same time assume there is other smaller battery in there) ?
  - bediger 15y ago
    Said wiretaps have been used against the Olympic Committee: googling "Athens Affair" yields a nice story, http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair There are rumors of the FBI's "Carnivore" (A.K.A. "DCS-3000" and "DCS-6000" getting used the same way in the USA.
  - waqf 15y ago
    I've been hearing that story about the FBI remotely activating cellphone microphones for several years now, but do you have a credible source for it?
    - tedunangst 15y ago
      source: http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/150467 http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdr... But the deeper you dig, the spottier the evidence really gets, with people confusing and jumbling a whole variety of facts together. For instance, the zdnet article cites "A BBC article from 2004 reported that intelligence agencies routinely employ the remote-activiation method." Here's that article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3522137.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3522137.stm It mostly seems to be talking about a physically bugged phone, except for the parts about decrypting conversations over the air. And the lasers. All people have to go on is the words "roving bug" in a court opinion which has somehow morphed into "all phones contain SMS activated spy microphones."
    - redrobot5050 15y ago
      Yes. Any briefing involving a secure area will mention that phones can be triggered this way, and that your customer (military, intel, DoD, or DOE) forbids their access for the very reason.
      - waqf 15y ago
        Are such briefings classified, or is there some chance of a citable reference?
        redrobot5050 15y ago
        I wouldn't be at liberty to comment either way. Talk to your friendly, neighborhood defense contractor.
  - lallysingh 15y ago
    I've got some questions on that first claim. Where's this done? I was under the opinion that you'd need system support for that to work --- the GSM radio's not directly plugged into the mic. I'd expect an android hacker to have found it there, if it's being injected in from the carriers. For secure locations, you have to surrender just about every electronic device you have, because they could be used to transport data outside the secure location. The same rule applies to USB sticks, hard drives, PDAs, ipods, etc.

lallysingh 15y ago

There's no way to send a remote message to enable it?

redrobot5050 15y ago
Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with more success now. Oh, and you do know that everything you SEND through a cellular network -- texts, pics, urls visited are logged, right? The only way to have a private network is to own the network. And know your netsec.
- lukeschlather 15y ago
  >However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. Really? When a phone is off, it's off, I don't believe the FBI can make a phone that has been hard powered off come up and start recording. The hardware just isn't capable of doing anything when it's hard powered off (evidenced by the fact that most phones need a signal to establish what time it is when you power them on.)
  - rdtsc 15y ago
    So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.
    - lukeschlather 15y ago
      When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.
      - rdtsc 15y ago
        Again, how do you know the phone is powered off unless you have a flip switch connected to the battery, take the battery out (and at the same time assume there is other smaller battery in there) ?
- bediger 15y ago
  Said wiretaps have been used against the Olympic Committee: googling "Athens Affair" yields a nice story, http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair There are rumors of the FBI's "Carnivore" (A.K.A. "DCS-3000" and "DCS-6000" getting used the same way in the USA.
- waqf 15y ago
  I've been hearing that story about the FBI remotely activating cellphone microphones for several years now, but do you have a credible source for it?
  - tedunangst 15y ago
    source: http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/150467 http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdr... But the deeper you dig, the spottier the evidence really gets, with people confusing and jumbling a whole variety of facts together. For instance, the zdnet article cites "A BBC article from 2004 reported that intelligence agencies routinely employ the remote-activiation method." Here's that article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3522137.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3522137.stm It mostly seems to be talking about a physically bugged phone, except for the parts about decrypting conversations over the air. And the lasers. All people have to go on is the words "roving bug" in a court opinion which has somehow morphed into "all phones contain SMS activated spy microphones."
  - redrobot5050 15y ago
    Yes. Any briefing involving a secure area will mention that phones can be triggered this way, and that your customer (military, intel, DoD, or DOE) forbids their access for the very reason.
    - waqf 15y ago
      Are such briefings classified, or is there some chance of a citable reference?
      - redrobot5050 15y ago
        I wouldn't be at liberty to comment either way. Talk to your friendly, neighborhood defense contractor.
- lallysingh 15y ago
  I've got some questions on that first claim. Where's this done? I was under the opinion that you'd need system support for that to work --- the GSM radio's not directly plugged into the mic. I'd expect an android hacker to have found it there, if it's being injected in from the carriers. For secure locations, you have to surrender just about every electronic device you have, because they could be used to transport data outside the secure location. The same rule applies to USB sticks, hard drives, PDAs, ipods, etc.