7 ms·

How do you maintain waterproofness without glue? Not just water resistance - I mean actually having the device survive having it in pocket and swimming with it.

rasz 4y ago
screws and gaskets
simion314 4y ago
Question, if the glue is there for your purpose you guessed then why is Apple not covering water and liquid damage ? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204104 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204104 The glue must be there for other reasons and probably you should not swim with your phone.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Agree that you shouldn’t swim with your phone, but Apple not covering liquid damage is a business decision that doesn’t tell me whether the glue and gaskets serve a valid waterproofing purpose. As someone who has replaced several batteries, I take pains to make sure I put new glue/sticky gaskets back in place when I do it and I do that for waterproofing not to protect Apple’s business.
  - simion314 4y ago
    >Agree that you shouldn’t swim with your phone, but Apple not covering liquid damage is a business decision that doesn’t tell me whether the glue and gaskets serve a valid waterproofing purpose. What will you define as "valid"? Using logic I can only conclude that glue is not used or is not effective for water proofing OR there are as you called "other business decision" involved here. Your alternative means that glue works but Apple uses the water detection stickers to refuse warranty in bad faith, the battery exploded because it was a bad batch => the water sticker is red, sorry no warranty for you! Anyway the phones are not in reality water proof,so this excuse should not be used by fanbous, let Apple lawyers use it, they are actually paid for it and might even know the reason it is used.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Engineers use gaskets between two surfaces all the time in an attempt to prevent fluids from passing. Some of those gaskets will fail. Sometimes the failure is because the mating surfaces have been flexed in use. Sometimes it's because the device has been disassembled and reassembled. Sometimes there was too much pressure differential applied. Sometimes they're just defective. Yet, they are still serving the intended purpose of improving the resistance to water passing. I don't see it as an indictment for Apple to put the pink stickers inside devices. I had a battery replacement warranty denied on my Macbook; said there was water intrusion. I was initially outraged until I recalled the time that I did actually get the laptop significantly wet (partially submerged) and quickly drained and dried it out and felt relief that "Oh, phew! It still works..." And it did still work and only several months later I noticed an unusual battery drain.
    - Cederfjard 4y ago
      Your logic isn't really valid. It could be that the glue is indeed effective in facilitating waterproofing and was put in place for that reason, however not to the extent that Apple wants to make any promises that it will survive being submerged. I don't know what the truth is, I just disagree with your conclusion based on the logic you present.
      - simion314 4y ago
        Sure, I can't prove that glue is 0% effective, maybe monkey dung is better , you can't prove it either. What I can prove is that "glue helps you swim with your iPhone is bullshit". In fact logic would tell us that glue is created for sticking things together, if you want water proofing you would use something designed for that purpose.
        sokoloff 4y ago
        If you can prove that statement, please do so.
        simion314 4y ago
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago
  I don't care about Apple. I use phones that are rated waterproof - because I am going to swim with it. I even successfully applied warranty few times (Sony and Samsung) when a phone got fucked this way, since the glue wasn't applied properly. New phone for me, yay.
izacus 4y ago
The same way those same manufacturers did when they still built phones with replaceable batteries, headphone jacks and SIM slots.
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago
  I don't recall any of these phones being waterproof. The first waterproof phone I've had was Sony Xperia Z and that was glued.
  - nisegami 4y ago
    The only one I know of would be the Galaxy S5.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - izacus 4y ago
    I don't understand why your recall has anything to do with existence of a type of product.
    - AlmostAnyone 4y ago
      Since I was specifically looking for this kind of products, I think I would remember. Prove me wrong!
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
What if I don't care about water proofing? Should all phones be glued just because a very small minority of users actually want waterproofing? I don't see why there can't just be a separate market segment for people who are willing to sacrifice some ease of repair for ruggedness.
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago
  Sure thing, but don't make waterproofing impossible in your fight for right to repair, please.
- olalonde 4y ago
  You are allowed to have different preferences, which is what a free market is all about. Right to repair regulations threaten that free market.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    That argument would make sense if there were repairable flagship phones, which there really aren't at the moment. Unregulated free markets are widely accepted to be a bad idea. E-waste is a serious problem that the free market can't solve on its own. Regulation is necessary.
    - olalonde 4y ago
      It could also be evidence that your preferences are not shared by the rest of the market. I believe the PinePhone prioritizes repairability but it's obviously not as popular as the iPhone. > Unregulated free markets are widely accepted to be a bad idea. E-waste is a serious problem that the free market can't solve on its own. Regulation is necessary. Why is e-waste a serious problem (as opposed to other types of waste)? Couldn't this problem be solved by improving e-waste disposal processes?
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        The fact that democracies are starting to push for right to repair suggests to me that this preference is becoming much more prevalent. I think most people would be happy to save a ton of money being able to repair instead of replace expensive electronics. Improved? Yes. Solved? Not really. Recycling is not a perfect process by any stretch. Producing less E-waste is just as important because global consumption of the resources that go into it is currently very unsustainable. E-waste management right now is not just unideal, it's more or less a joke. In 2021 less than 20% of E-waste in Europe was being collected and recycled. Recycling is hard. It requires changes at almost all levels of society. Designing repairable electronics on the other hand is essentially a solved problem that the industry has done less and less due to cost. Because the free market ultimately is best at optimising for lowering cost, and not other things like sustainability, safety, and so on. That's where regulations and taxes come in.
waynesonfire 4y ago
Gaskets? I'm not an iPhone repair shop but previous posts suggest it is a gasket with light adhesive.
thereddaikon 4y ago
The same way you do with anything else that's waterproof and has removable batteries....You have a small rubber gasket.
- AlmostAnyone 4y ago
  Could you give some examples of these things, please? All waterproof hardware I have ever owned (phones, cameras, flashlights, watches, etc) doesn't have user-replaceable batteries. In all cases the batteries need to be replaced by a specialized shop and the waterproofness is tested afterwards in a special machine - and it's not always a success and the job needs to be redone. Note that there is a significant difference between "water resistance" and "waterproofness".
  - xkfm 4y ago
    Samsung Galaxy Xcover6 Pro was released in July and has a removable battery, headphone jack, and has the same IP rating as the S9 A few companies have business/military phones that still have most of the features people were used to. They are a little bigger, but you don't need a case.
    - AlmostAnyone 4y ago
      Hmm, nice but that's really a very different kind of device. I don't want anything so bulky - this is like double the thickness of the S9. I'm not using any case, no need - the Gorilla glass is more than enough to survive repeated falls on the road when I was getting out of a car.
  - thereddaikon 4y ago
    I see it all the time in radios. I'm a ham so I own a few and any radio with an IPX rating more than being in the same zip code as water will be both waterproof and have removeable batteries.
  - COGlory 4y ago
    Kyocera has a waterproof line of phones that a number of have replaceable batteries.
1970-01-01 4y ago
With a sealing ring or gasket. Many patents for this concept exist: https://patents.google.com/?q=G04B39%2f02 https://patents.google.com/?q=G04B39%2f02

rasz 4y ago

screws and gaskets

simion314 4y ago

Question, if the glue is there for your purpose you guessed then why is Apple not covering water and liquid damage ? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204104 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204104 The glue must be there for other reasons and probably you should not swim with your phone.

sokoloff 4y ago
Agree that you shouldn’t swim with your phone, but Apple not covering liquid damage is a business decision that doesn’t tell me whether the glue and gaskets serve a valid waterproofing purpose. As someone who has replaced several batteries, I take pains to make sure I put new glue/sticky gaskets back in place when I do it and I do that for waterproofing not to protect Apple’s business.
- simion314 4y ago
  >Agree that you shouldn’t swim with your phone, but Apple not covering liquid damage is a business decision that doesn’t tell me whether the glue and gaskets serve a valid waterproofing purpose. What will you define as "valid"? Using logic I can only conclude that glue is not used or is not effective for water proofing OR there are as you called "other business decision" involved here. Your alternative means that glue works but Apple uses the water detection stickers to refuse warranty in bad faith, the battery exploded because it was a bad batch => the water sticker is red, sorry no warranty for you! Anyway the phones are not in reality water proof,so this excuse should not be used by fanbous, let Apple lawyers use it, they are actually paid for it and might even know the reason it is used.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Engineers use gaskets between two surfaces all the time in an attempt to prevent fluids from passing. Some of those gaskets will fail. Sometimes the failure is because the mating surfaces have been flexed in use. Sometimes it's because the device has been disassembled and reassembled. Sometimes there was too much pressure differential applied. Sometimes they're just defective. Yet, they are still serving the intended purpose of improving the resistance to water passing. I don't see it as an indictment for Apple to put the pink stickers inside devices. I had a battery replacement warranty denied on my Macbook; said there was water intrusion. I was initially outraged until I recalled the time that I did actually get the laptop significantly wet (partially submerged) and quickly drained and dried it out and felt relief that "Oh, phew! It still works..." And it did still work and only several months later I noticed an unusual battery drain.
  - Cederfjard 4y ago
    Your logic isn't really valid. It could be that the glue is indeed effective in facilitating waterproofing and was put in place for that reason, however not to the extent that Apple wants to make any promises that it will survive being submerged. I don't know what the truth is, I just disagree with your conclusion based on the logic you present.
    - simion314 4y ago
      Sure, I can't prove that glue is 0% effective, maybe monkey dung is better , you can't prove it either. What I can prove is that "glue helps you swim with your iPhone is bullshit". In fact logic would tell us that glue is created for sticking things together, if you want water proofing you would use something designed for that purpose.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        If you can prove that statement, please do so.
        simion314 4y ago
AlmostAnyone 4y ago
I don't care about Apple. I use phones that are rated waterproof - because I am going to swim with it. I even successfully applied warranty few times (Sony and Samsung) when a phone got fucked this way, since the glue wasn't applied properly. New phone for me, yay.

izacus 4y ago

The same way those same manufacturers did when they still built phones with replaceable batteries, headphone jacks and SIM slots.

AlmostAnyone 4y ago
I don't recall any of these phones being waterproof. The first waterproof phone I've had was Sony Xperia Z and that was glued.
- nisegami 4y ago
  The only one I know of would be the Galaxy S5.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- izacus 4y ago
  I don't understand why your recall has anything to do with existence of a type of product.
  - AlmostAnyone 4y ago
    Since I was specifically looking for this kind of products, I think I would remember. Prove me wrong!

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

What if I don't care about water proofing? Should all phones be glued just because a very small minority of users actually want waterproofing? I don't see why there can't just be a separate market segment for people who are willing to sacrifice some ease of repair for ruggedness.

AlmostAnyone 4y ago
Sure thing, but don't make waterproofing impossible in your fight for right to repair, please.
olalonde 4y ago
You are allowed to have different preferences, which is what a free market is all about. Right to repair regulations threaten that free market.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  That argument would make sense if there were repairable flagship phones, which there really aren't at the moment. Unregulated free markets are widely accepted to be a bad idea. E-waste is a serious problem that the free market can't solve on its own. Regulation is necessary.
  - olalonde 4y ago
    It could also be evidence that your preferences are not shared by the rest of the market. I believe the PinePhone prioritizes repairability but it's obviously not as popular as the iPhone. > Unregulated free markets are widely accepted to be a bad idea. E-waste is a serious problem that the free market can't solve on its own. Regulation is necessary. Why is e-waste a serious problem (as opposed to other types of waste)? Couldn't this problem be solved by improving e-waste disposal processes?
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      The fact that democracies are starting to push for right to repair suggests to me that this preference is becoming much more prevalent. I think most people would be happy to save a ton of money being able to repair instead of replace expensive electronics. Improved? Yes. Solved? Not really. Recycling is not a perfect process by any stretch. Producing less E-waste is just as important because global consumption of the resources that go into it is currently very unsustainable. E-waste management right now is not just unideal, it's more or less a joke. In 2021 less than 20% of E-waste in Europe was being collected and recycled. Recycling is hard. It requires changes at almost all levels of society. Designing repairable electronics on the other hand is essentially a solved problem that the industry has done less and less due to cost. Because the free market ultimately is best at optimising for lowering cost, and not other things like sustainability, safety, and so on. That's where regulations and taxes come in.

waynesonfire 4y ago

Gaskets? I'm not an iPhone repair shop but previous posts suggest it is a gasket with light adhesive.

thereddaikon 4y ago

The same way you do with anything else that's waterproof and has removable batteries....You have a small rubber gasket.

AlmostAnyone 4y ago
Could you give some examples of these things, please? All waterproof hardware I have ever owned (phones, cameras, flashlights, watches, etc) doesn't have user-replaceable batteries. In all cases the batteries need to be replaced by a specialized shop and the waterproofness is tested afterwards in a special machine - and it's not always a success and the job needs to be redone. Note that there is a significant difference between "water resistance" and "waterproofness".
- xkfm 4y ago
  Samsung Galaxy Xcover6 Pro was released in July and has a removable battery, headphone jack, and has the same IP rating as the S9 A few companies have business/military phones that still have most of the features people were used to. They are a little bigger, but you don't need a case.
  - AlmostAnyone 4y ago
    Hmm, nice but that's really a very different kind of device. I don't want anything so bulky - this is like double the thickness of the S9. I'm not using any case, no need - the Gorilla glass is more than enough to survive repeated falls on the road when I was getting out of a car.
- thereddaikon 4y ago
  I see it all the time in radios. I'm a ham so I own a few and any radio with an IPX rating more than being in the same zip code as water will be both waterproof and have removeable batteries.
- COGlory 4y ago
  Kyocera has a waterproof line of phones that a number of have replaceable batteries.

1970-01-01 4y ago

With a sealing ring or gasket. Many patents for this concept exist: https://patents.google.com/?q=G04B39%2f02 https://patents.google.com/?q=G04B39%2f02