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Ask HN: Why has the comment section become so pessimistic?

26 points by pmohun 4y ago

I've found that HN has become increasingly cynical, and I'm trying to understand why. Not snarky; serious question. Is it simply because being pessimistic makes you sound smarter?

errantmind 4y ago
It is easier to criticise than actually do anything constructive.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  And in the modern social media milieu, the cost/risk/wait/benefit parameters for criticism are enormously improved.
- atoav 4y ago
  There are some things that are often even easier than that: 1. not criticizing and not doing anything constructive 2. criticizing while doing something destructive, e.g. like framing every criticism in opposition to doing something constructive, as if the peole who are constructive cannot criticise and those who criticise cannot be constructive. I would not be able to tell at a glance whether someone critical is doing something constructive or not. Accusing critics of not doing anything constructive is itself not constructive, but just evasion.
  - errantmind 4y ago
    I didn't frame it anything like that. Ironically, this is what the post is about: uncharitable cynicism. Me saying it is easier to criticise than create doesn't mean criticism is always harmful or useless.
- NoboruWataya 4y ago
  But it's just as easy to pander and praise, so this can't be the explanation of why comments tend to skew pessimistic rather than optimistic.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Criticise something that is based in wrong assumptions, is also doing something constructive
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  That's what gave us Theranos.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Criticism is constructive. 90% of everything is crap, but it’s not always immediately apparent what that is. Society depends on people to filter out all the bad ideas being generated constantly before they can do too much damage.
  - errantmind 4y ago
    Not always. 90% of criticism is crap too, and that is what I'm referring to.
bell-cot 4y ago
Partly, what you're noticing is a reaction to the vast quantity of baloney that the tech industry generates. (Which baloney might be interesting to taxonomize into techno-utopianism, marketing hype, DilbertCo PHBism, ...) Partly, it's because HN's stereotypical user is an engineer. Engineers are supposed to tend critical / cynical / pessimistic - otherwise stuff just doesn't work, and Sales gets away with pre-selling "production starts next quarter" pedal-powered supersonic flying cars. Partly, it's because folks here recognize that the world has huge problems (injustice, wars, climate change, etc.) which neither their stereotypical skills nor personal aspirations (write awesome code, engineer a cloud solution, scale a startup, take their unicorn public) do anything meaningful to address. And that if things really go to sh*t...then all their 1337 skillz, achievements, money, and possessions will be worth far less than some old Luddite geezer's bunker in Montana. (I've noticed for a while that I have a pretty critical / cynical / pessimistic tone here on HN. For me, that's partly because many HNer's feels like they're a fraction of my age, with a rather narrow education and worldview - so they can need reminding that a whole lot of actually-relevant stuff happened before the web was a thing, and the world doesn't "just work" because of {optimistic generalities & hand-waves that a parent might use in explaining society & economics to a kid}):
- atoav 4y ago
  As you said, being critical to a certain degree is what allows is to make things that work. And there is enough stuff happening to be mad about. I wonder whether those who feel the place has become too critical are not actually in dire need to face that cricism instead of finding some exuse why they would rather not.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    Some, probably yes. BUT - engineers are also humans, HN is not (99.9%) their job, and humans have social needs. If they are [stuck] trying to meet their human social needs on HN (& similar platforms)...then the oft-cynical/critical/pessimistic atmosphere here is really not gonna be good for their emotional health. Back in the day, western society offered humans a far richer social life - neighborhoods, churches, formal & informal social & service clubs, etc. Now - those are, mostly, dying or gone, thanks to relentless capitalism and mass media. Families are far smaller and more fragmented. But the human needs which they met are still with us.
DeathArrow 4y ago
Maybe it's because people had delusions and realized they believed in false gods and false religions whose promises never came true.
- goolz 4y ago
  Could you please explain this further? It almost seems like you are trying to be edgy or something but perhaps this is just sarcasm or something and I am just daft?
  - aliswe 4y ago
    Maybe this is simply an example of the pessimistic tone at HN?
onetokeoverthe 4y ago
nonasktell 4y ago
We just went through a huge pandemic, a lot of people think we're on the brink of WW3, near a financial crisis, big inflation, huge mental and physical health problems. Everyone is on edge, not just HN lol.
dontbenebby 4y ago
Depressive realism
amadeuspagel 4y ago
Maybe a selection effect. Maybe the more optimistic people are working rather then commenting.
cbeach 4y ago
Society is polarising thanks to social media, with its self-reinforcing echo chambers. Like/dislike buttons promote groupthink and demote comments from critical thinkers whose thinking doesn’t conform to whatever is popular. This makes group-thinkers more tribal and protective of their ideas, while critical thinkers feel ostracised and more defensive about their ideas. Everyone becomes more combative and unhappy.

26 points by pmohun 4y ago

I've found that HN has become increasingly cynical, and I'm trying to understand why. Not snarky; serious question. Is it simply because being pessimistic makes you sound smarter?

errantmind 4y ago

It is easier to criticise than actually do anything constructive.

bell-cot 4y ago
And in the modern social media milieu, the cost/risk/wait/benefit parameters for criticism are enormously improved.
atoav 4y ago
There are some things that are often even easier than that: 1. not criticizing and not doing anything constructive 2. criticizing while doing something destructive, e.g. like framing every criticism in opposition to doing something constructive, as if the peole who are constructive cannot criticise and those who criticise cannot be constructive. I would not be able to tell at a glance whether someone critical is doing something constructive or not. Accusing critics of not doing anything constructive is itself not constructive, but just evasion.
- errantmind 4y ago
  I didn't frame it anything like that. Ironically, this is what the post is about: uncharitable cynicism. Me saying it is easier to criticise than create doesn't mean criticism is always harmful or useless.
NoboruWataya 4y ago
But it's just as easy to pander and praise, so this can't be the explanation of why comments tend to skew pessimistic rather than optimistic.
pvaldes 4y ago
Criticise something that is based in wrong assumptions, is also doing something constructive
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
That's what gave us Theranos.
rayiner 4y ago
Criticism is constructive. 90% of everything is crap, but it’s not always immediately apparent what that is. Society depends on people to filter out all the bad ideas being generated constantly before they can do too much damage.
- errantmind 4y ago
  Not always. 90% of criticism is crap too, and that is what I'm referring to.

bell-cot 4y ago

Partly, what you're noticing is a reaction to the vast quantity of baloney that the tech industry generates. (Which baloney might be interesting to taxonomize into techno-utopianism, marketing hype, DilbertCo PHBism, ...) Partly, it's because HN's stereotypical user is an engineer. Engineers are supposed to tend critical / cynical / pessimistic - otherwise stuff just doesn't work, and Sales gets away with pre-selling "production starts next quarter" pedal-powered supersonic flying cars. Partly, it's because folks here recognize that the world has huge problems (injustice, wars, climate change, etc.) which neither their stereotypical skills nor personal aspirations (write awesome code, engineer a cloud solution, scale a startup, take their unicorn public) do anything meaningful to address. And that if things really go to sh*t...then all their 1337 skillz, achievements, money, and possessions will be worth far less than some old Luddite geezer's bunker in Montana. (I've noticed for a while that I have a pretty critical / cynical / pessimistic tone here on HN. For me, that's partly because many HNer's feels like they're a fraction of my age, with a rather narrow education and worldview - so they can need reminding that a whole lot of actually-relevant stuff happened before the web was a thing, and the world doesn't "just work" because of {optimistic generalities & hand-waves that a parent might use in explaining society & economics to a kid}):

atoav 4y ago
As you said, being critical to a certain degree is what allows is to make things that work. And there is enough stuff happening to be mad about. I wonder whether those who feel the place has become too critical are not actually in dire need to face that cricism instead of finding some exuse why they would rather not.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  Some, probably yes. BUT - engineers are also humans, HN is not (99.9%) their job, and humans have social needs. If they are [stuck] trying to meet their human social needs on HN (& similar platforms)...then the oft-cynical/critical/pessimistic atmosphere here is really not gonna be good for their emotional health. Back in the day, western society offered humans a far richer social life - neighborhoods, churches, formal & informal social & service clubs, etc. Now - those are, mostly, dying or gone, thanks to relentless capitalism and mass media. Families are far smaller and more fragmented. But the human needs which they met are still with us.

DeathArrow 4y ago

Maybe it's because people had delusions and realized they believed in false gods and false religions whose promises never came true.

goolz 4y ago
Could you please explain this further? It almost seems like you are trying to be edgy or something but perhaps this is just sarcasm or something and I am just daft?
- aliswe 4y ago
  Maybe this is simply an example of the pessimistic tone at HN?

onetokeoverthe 4y ago

nonasktell 4y ago

We just went through a huge pandemic, a lot of people think we're on the brink of WW3, near a financial crisis, big inflation, huge mental and physical health problems. Everyone is on edge, not just HN lol.

dontbenebby 4y ago

Depressive realism

amadeuspagel 4y ago

Maybe a selection effect. Maybe the more optimistic people are working rather then commenting.

cbeach 4y ago

Society is polarising thanks to social media, with its self-reinforcing echo chambers. Like/dislike buttons promote groupthink and demote comments from critical thinkers whose thinking doesn’t conform to whatever is popular. This makes group-thinkers more tribal and protective of their ideas, while critical thinkers feel ostracised and more defensive about their ideas. Everyone becomes more combative and unhappy.